Author Topic: P2P Picks Billing Structure  (Read 11171 times)

rawraw

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P2P Picks Billing Structure
« on: July 20, 2013, 01:27:59 PM »
Hey Bryce!

Your pay for clicks structure is going to have two problems now.

1) People may feel 'cheated' having to pay for picks that didn't even fund.  I know you are expecting this and have priced accordingly, but humans aren't necessarily Bayesian processors.  But this hasn't changed.

2) A lot of "clicks" result in the notes not even being available currently.  They are immediately funded after the click is made, not allowing the investor to actually benefit from the model.  This is new.

So while #1 has stayed the same, #2 is new.  We as users would get billed for possibly a lot more notes than we should.  Have you considered how to rectify it?  These two issues would be the only thing keeping me from being a happy nickel provider :)


brycemason

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Re: P2P Picks Billing Structure
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2013, 01:43:04 PM »
Hi Rawraw,

You are right! The stale picks problem is worse than it once was. I am pursuing a couple remedies to this frustrating issue. It is the #1 complaint.

First, I am scripting a monitor to watch the LC platform more carefully and continuously, so that I know exactly when the loans have been added. This will then trigger the credit scoring algorithms, which previously were run a fixed 3-4 minutes after the hour. This should shave off maybe 30 seconds on average.

Second, and I just did this last night, I optimized the upload of the picks. This shaved off 30 seconds.

The browse notes download to picks upload process only takes about 30 seconds, but I need to keep it as lean as possible.

Third, I am trying to find a clever way of checking to make a very fast check of whether a loan is still available on the platform, so that when a user clicks "Go," the system verifies that loan is still around before accruing any fee.

These things should address this concern.

I am not going to change the billing system to act only on verified issued loans. It's just untenable at this time.

New Jersey Guy

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Re: P2P Picks Billing Structure
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2013, 02:13:31 PM »
"Have you considered how to rectify it?"

You've been reading too many of Sarahs posts about the penny she lost on a note that paid early.  Just give the man his darn nickel!

Bryce....I remember a while back that there used to be a company that sent refunds in the form of postage stamps.  Send Rawraw his postage stamp, but put it on the outside of the envelope where it gets cancelled!
Return over deposits:   66.82%
IRR:   86.54%
As of April 30, 2014

brycemason

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Re: P2P Picks Billing Structure
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2013, 02:36:12 PM »
Hah! Thanks for the good chuckle, but I think Rawraw represents an important concern here. Even I get frustrated when I see "0 Notes Added," and I'm not paying anything!

rawraw

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Re: P2P Picks Billing Structure
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2013, 03:25:26 PM »
I'm not even that upset about it, but it would be something I consider -- but I'm positive it's going to come up once people aren't using P2P for free, so figured I'd bring it up :)

And I understand that #1 is just really hard to figure out.  I'll stay your friend. . . for now :)

hrux

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Re: P2P Picks Billing Structure
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2013, 10:49:20 AM »
I agree this is a concern.

Bryce- will the auto invest help remedy this and charge fees based on that?

brycemason

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Re: P2P Picks Billing Structure
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2013, 11:16:35 AM »
Once the changes above are implemented, it should only take about 20s from LC release to the picks being on the server for subscribers. A faster computer might be able to cut this down to 10s. In any case that's about as fast as it is going to get. This means subscribers who are sitting on the site (typically I have 8-15 people waiting at feeding time, refreshing the page) will have extra time to click picks and get them into their cart before being gobbled up!

When auto invest comes, we will be able to verify that the note was purchased, and thus never bill someone for a stale pick. However, the manual subscribers will also be getting a failsafe check so that when they click "Go," the site does what it always does but also checks LC to ensure that the loan is still on the platform with sufficient room for investment. Only when this failsafe passes will the subscriber accrue the fee. Both auto investors and manual subscribers will have the same experience.

Thank you for the thoughts! I look forward to a much faster and less frustrating P2P-picks experience in the next couple days.

Bryce

thezfunk

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Re: P2P Picks Billing Structure
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2013, 12:00:43 PM »
This was a concern I was going to post about but I figured it would come up if I gave it some time and then I wouldn't like the big complainer that I am.

Believe it or not...I have noticed your changes already.  Yes, I am one of the 8-15 :-)

I still didn't see anything I wanted today but a refresh at 3 minutes after yielded picks when before 4 minutes after seemed to be the quickest they would show up.

Thanks for the work.

brycemason

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Re: P2P Picks Billing Structure
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2013, 12:17:30 PM »
It's not quite done yet, although one change has been implemented and I'm glad you've noticed. Should be able to get this down to no more than 20-30 seconds from the time LC releases loans.

Rob L

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Re: P2P Picks Billing Structure
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2013, 06:27:55 PM »
Seems from what I can tell that you've reached the 20-30 second response time from LC loan availability to a fresh updated picks list; correct?

brycemason

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Re: P2P Picks Billing Structure
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2013, 01:35:36 AM »
Yes, and we can improve upon the "release to pick post" time probably another 10 seconds, if push comes to shove.

Made a good step today in building a "check if this loan is still around for funding" script. Needs optimization and then an implementation to check for stale picks. Will do a very short test in our development environment and then push to production to solicit feedback. Hopefully stale picks will be a thing of the past in another few days!

rawraw

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Re: P2P Picks Billing Structure
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2013, 07:07:38 AM »
Bryce, clicking "25" and then clicking "Go" takes an awful long time when all the ones I'm pressing are stale (It seems this is occuring a lot more since the changes.  Are you leaving notes up there longer?  I log in at random times and there are always notes that don't exist up it seems)  Is there any chance you could just put in a "Select All 25" , "Select Al 50", etc?

brycemason

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Re: P2P Picks Billing Structure
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2013, 10:11:31 AM »
Just bear with it a little longer, Rawraw. Fixing the one issue (post to post time) made the other thing worse (leaving picks up). It'll be resolved in a few more days.

I have considered a "go all" button, as well as a "25 all" or the like.

thezfunk

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Re: P2P Picks Billing Structure
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2013, 10:35:57 AM »
Just bear with it a little longer, Rawraw. Fixing the one issue (post to post time) made the other thing worse (leaving picks up). It'll be resolved in a few more days.

I have considered a "go all" button, as well as a "25 all" or the like.

That might be a good idea.  A select all 1% or 5% or whatever.  For some reason it takes at least 3 clicks once you are in Lending Club for each loan and I am trying to deploy a chunk of money.

It's still frustrating me.  It's not your fault, Bryce.  I just don't think we are going to be able to beat the institutions.  Lending Club needs to step up and protect the retail investors. 

Yesterday I logged in and refreshed repeatedly and the very moment I saw the three 1% loans show up I clicked the $25 on all three and clicked go on each one.  The final popup I went to finalize all three orders and they were all gone.  All three of them were gone.  I didn't get a single piece.  There is no way I can do the process faster.  It's dumb that I even have to be complaining about this.  Lending Club needs to do something if they really care about us.

Bryce, I am curious if you are recording any sort of stats about stale picks?  Would any data be available if we were to approach Lending Club in some fashion about how fast their loans get funded? 

rawraw

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Re: P2P Picks Billing Structure
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2013, 04:46:14 PM »
Just bear with it a little longer, Rawraw. Fixing the one issue (post to post time) made the other thing worse (leaving picks up). It'll be resolved in a few more days.

I have considered a "go all" button, as well as a "25 all" or the like.
I hope you don't think I'm some unhappy user or a complainypants!  I just try to highlight things others may be thinking but don't say.  I know being a user who didn't design it, I have a different perspective than yourself :)  I love the platform and am happy -- just want everyone to be happy, so it sustains itself :)