Author Topic: Experience with P2P as an Income Generator/Fixed Income replacement?  (Read 5224 times)

.Ryan.

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
Hello folks, I've been casually investing in P2P for about 1.5 years, but I'm not nearly as deep into the mechanics as some of you. So please be gentle! ;) I am interested in investors experiences with using P2P for income generation, specifically strategies around regularly withdrawing profits and keeping the principal amount in play. I have a few questions, but would love to get any and all feedback on investors who have tried this, or even contemplated it. Any advice is appreciated.

I am defining profits as portfolio value over the original investment. Please let me know if there is a better way to do so.

I'm concerned that this strategy would be book runoff, minimizing new note investment (as compared to automatic reinvestment). It seems that many believe that reinvestment offsets the higher number of defaults in aging loans, so decrementing new loan investment would have a magnified negative impact on return. Any truth to this?

In terms of withdrawals, is there any difference (in terms of investment impact) of taking profits every X months, vs. a strategy of taking profits every time they have reached $X?

What is/would be your strategy for income investing with P2P?

Thank you!

Fred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1421
    • View Profile
Re: Experience with P2P as an Income Generator/Fixed Income replacement?
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2016, 01:10:42 PM »
specifically strategies around regularly withdrawing profits and keeping the principal amount in play.

This is also my plan sometime in the future -- currently I do not withdraw anything from LC.

IMO, keeping the principal amount in play is higher priority than withdrawing profits.  Some month we can withdraw a good amount of profits, some month no profit at all, and some other month we may have to inject new cash to prop up the principal.

So "taking a fixed x% annual withdrawal" is not quite the right approach here.

Fred93

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2243
    • View Profile
Re: Experience with P2P as an Income Generator/Fixed Income replacement?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2016, 01:13:41 PM »
I'm concerned that this strategy would be book runoff, minimizing new note investment (as compared to automatic reinvestment). It seems that many believe that reinvestment offsets the higher number of defaults in aging loans, so decrementing new loan investment would have a magnified negative impact on return. Any truth to this?

Those "many" are the confused mathematically ignorant.  You'll do great.

Old loans have lower defaults than young loans.  Aged loans are good.  You'll do great.

lascott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1438
    • View Profile
    • Appreciate my post and want to try LendingRobot? URL below
Re: Experience with P2P as an Income Generator/Fixed Income replacement?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2016, 02:09:48 PM »
a strategy of taking profits every time they have reached $X?
This sounds like a good approach for reasons Fred posted and from what I've seen.  I'm only ~2 years in on my taxable account and ~6 months in on a ROTH account.

I'm doing something different and starting to take out enough to cover a vehicle payment (2.04% loan) starting in about a month from my taxable account.  This will be more than I'm earning monthly but I will add a fair amount back in every year in Jan due to two 72t/SEPP annual payouts.  It'll be interesting to see what happens to my account value.

After my wife retires, I will then calculate how much more to take out each month to have it empty when we are 59.5. This will supplement our existing and additional 72t/SEPP withdraws. I've posted about this in another thread we we discussed the calculators to do this.
Tools I use: (main) BlueVestment: https://www.bluevestment.com/app/pricing + https://www.interestradar.com/ , (others) Lending Robot referral link: https://www.lendingrobot.com/ref/scott473/  & Peercube referral code: DFVA9Y

AnilG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1122
    • View Profile
    • PeerCube
Re: Experience with P2P as an Income Generator/Fixed Income replacement?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2016, 02:55:39 PM »
What you are trying to do with your P2P account is to establish an Annuity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annuity. You can become very mathematical if you want to in setting up periodic withdrawals from P2P account.

A simple way to think: If your P2P account is generating 8% a year return, you can withdraw up to 8% from your account every year and potentially not touch the principal. As returns tend to vary from one year to another, you may want to keep some safety margin and only withdraw 5% a year. So with $100,000 P2P account, you can withdraw $5,000 a year. Beyond that you need not worry about account internals as long as your lending strategy continue to generate the target return or higher. Easiest way to time the withdrawal is to wait for the year-end, check if your actual return was more than withdrawal percentage (or lower withdrawal %), stop the re-investment until you hit the withdrawal amount and then withdraw the amount and restart re-investment. Another option is to always maintain a 6-12 months of cash as buffer in your account to meet withdrawal needs. You can get fancy with mathematics if your withdrawal needs are monthly instead of yearly or need more granular estimation.

Hello folks, I've been casually investing in P2P for about 1.5 years, but I'm not nearly as deep into the mechanics as some of you. So please be gentle! ;) I am interested in investors experiences with using P2P for income generation, specifically strategies around regularly withdrawing profits and keeping the principal amount in play. I have a few questions, but would love to get any and all feedback on investors who have tried this, or even contemplated it. Any advice is appreciated.

I am defining profits as portfolio value over the original investment. Please let me know if there is a better way to do so.

I'm concerned that this strategy would be book runoff, minimizing new note investment (as compared to automatic reinvestment). It seems that many believe that reinvestment offsets the higher number of defaults in aging loans, so decrementing new loan investment would have a magnified negative impact on return. Any truth to this?

In terms of withdrawals, is there any difference (in terms of investment impact) of taking profits every X months, vs. a strategy of taking profits every time they have reached $X?

What is/would be your strategy for income investing with P2P?

Thank you!
---
Anil Gupta
PeerCube Thoughts blog https://www.peercube.com/blog
PeerCube https://www.peercube.com

BritishJim

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: Experience with P2P as an Income Generator/Fixed Income replacement?
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2016, 10:57:31 AM »
I have both a Prosper & Lending Club IRA that Iíve been withdrawing from on a monthly basis for several years.  The way I figure the amount that I draw are the same for both but how I withdraw is different.

I take my Account Balance (Prosper) or Adjusted Account Value (Lending Club) from the end of the month and subtract the amount from the start of the month and add in any amount I withdrew during that period.  This gives me (in a simplistic manner but it works overall) the amount of interest earned that period.  Should I withdraw more, then Iíll be pulling from principal, less then the account increases, or maybe just take what it earned and the account remains neutral.

I have both the IRA custodians, Equity Institutional (Prosper) and Self Directed IRA (Lending Club) set up to automatically withdraw whatever cash is in my account (the IRA custodian account mind you) once a month.

My Lending Club is four times the size of the Prosper due to a variety of reasons not part of this topic.  Letís assume Prosper ďearnsĒ $500 and Lending Club $2,000 for the month of February.  With Self Directed IRA, I have it set up to transfer on the 1st and Equity Institutional on the 15th. 

Staring with Lending Club, Iíve decided Iím going to withdraw $2,000 during March and will get that money on 1 April.  I am using nsrplatform to invest and could wait until the cash in the Lending Club account reaches $2,000 and do a transfer but that means Iíve missed out on buying loans for that time.  Since Iím able to transfer from Lending Club to Self Directed IRA instantaneously on-line, I break that $2,000 into four transfers, transferring $500 each week.  This allows my account to continue buying loans with cash not transferred.

Prosper is different in that I cannot do this on-line but rather have to send an e-mail to someone at Prosper to initiate the transfer.  Iíd say about 3 out of 4 times, that works the first time but itís not uncommon for have to follow up once or twice to get the transfer started.  It then goes to accounting and then the money is transferred to Equity Institutional.  It typically takes about a week to see the money transferred.  Given the hassle with this, I only withdraw once from Prosper, so in our example, I would e-mail to have $500 withdrawn shortly after the 15th of March (for 15 April into my bank account) to give Prosper plenty of time.  For four years Iíve asked the three ďaccount executivesĒ that have been assigned to my account if we could allow on-line transfers with the response, ďThat would be nice, maybe somedayĒ.

How the IRA custodians treat the transfer differ as well and one needs to be aware of that.

On the first of the month Self Directed IRA looks to see if any cash is in my account and transfers whatever amount is there to my bank account.  If there is no cash, no transfer and the request to transfer is closed.  Should cash come in on the second of the month or later, it will stay there until the first of the next month.

With Equity Institutional, should there be no cash in the account on the 15th, they hold open the request and if cash comes in later, letís say the 25th, then they immediately transfer that to your bank account and then the request is considered closed.  I completely disagree with that, if I set it up to transfer on the 15th then it should be the 15th, period.  This personally impacted me tax wise when they transferred money just a few days short of me turning 59Ĺ and was unaware then how they treated the transfer. I now understand this and account for it.

One last observation, Iíve never had any trouble with Self Directed IRA but it has been nothing but problems from day one with Equity Institutional. I believe Prosper now uses Millennium Trust which I know nothing about.


marcoschwartz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Experience with P2P as an Income Generator/Fixed Income replacement?
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2016, 08:00:23 AM »
I don't withdraw as well at the moment, but if needed I will, my goal is also to generate income with P2P lending. What you can do is use auto-investing on the P2P lending platforms & then set the option to keep a minimum amount on the account, which you then withdraw monthly.