Author Topic: No more info on loan investors and bids  (Read 11824 times)

Ronald

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
No more info on loan investors and bids
« on: March 06, 2013, 12:24:51 PM »
Is it me, or did prosper took out the part where it says who bidded how much on each loan?

Not sure about you guys, but for me, this is critical, without this, I might not invest anymore as its part of my loan selection criteria...

Dennis

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
    • View Profile
Re: No more info on loan investors and bids
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2013, 02:11:28 PM »
You're right, I just noticed that too.  A fluke in the system or intentional???

ee1x

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: No more info on loan investors and bids
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2013, 02:19:25 PM »
Just spoke with somebody on the main Prosper customer service line. They said that they have indeed eliminated the feature "due to privacy concerns" and that it was a combination of outside pressure as well as an internal decision. They also stated that the feature will likely be removed from the API soon as well, rendering Prosper-Stats largely useless to myself and many other investors.

I don't know about you guys but I think Prosper just shot themselves in the foot. This was one of their primary competitive advantages over Lending Club in my eyes...

Also this doesn't make sense to me because a full listing of all registered owners of a stock (i.e. those who do not own a stock "in street name" through a brokerage) are made public through data sources such as the Bloomberg Terminal... I would expect that the regulations should be similar for peer-to-peer.
Investing since March 2012

dontvote

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: No more info on loan investors and bids
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2013, 04:12:32 PM »
these aren't publicly traded securities so there isn't any real obligation to tell people who bid on what. there are some who like this aspect of investing 'together' but at the end of the day (esp with the supply on prosper lagging) we are in competition with one another to allocate capital to good candidates

this shouldn't come as any surprise to anyone. why would a smart investor want their returns crowded out by people reverse engineering their filters and getting to their loans first? granted, it's more fun to know who's doing well and who bid on what, but doesn't really serve any purpose other than to let people follow along with larger investors. anyone interested in sharing could always post their notes.csv file online for people to mess around with.

edit: how long until they don't report other people's returns at all

dontvote
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 04:14:40 PM by dontvote »
dontvote

Interest Radar IRR: 46.11%
NSR ROI: 41.22%
Average Loan Age: Your Moms

rocco.g

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
    • Nickel Steamroller
Re: No more info on loan investors and bids
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2013, 05:18:40 PM »
I am pretty sure these are publicly traded securities.  Hence why Prosper registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC).  I don't know if this obligates them in any way to show who bid on what listing, but I thought it was a point worth clarifying.

Secondly, I got in contact with Prosper about this potential change months ago because of the impact it would have on my site (www.prosper-stats.com).  It upsets me to say that Prosper continued to tell me they were discussing internally on what to do about bid data/privacy and that no plans had been made right up until the day bid data stopped appearing in the data export.  Even then I assumed this was a glitch until I was finally told by someone at Prosper that the bid data was intentionally pulled.

I have asked that they turn this data back on temporarily until their new API is made publicly available which would at least allow for alternate means of portfolio management on a per-user basis (such as finding previously late notes), but since I haven't heard anything, and bids still aren't appearing, I am going to assume it isn't going to happen.

During my initial conversation with Prosper an alternate proposal was suggested to allow people to "opt-out" of having their bid data published instead of just dropping all bid data.  I was hoping that this or something similar to it would allow those who didn't want to have their bid data published a way to protect their privacy, while at the same time allowing data analysis on the rest of the data.  I was planning to put a message about this up on my site in the next couple weeks to get people's feedback on this suggestion and to ask them to put in a request with Prosper to implement an "opt-out" model instead of blocking all the data.  My current thought is that there is significant demand for this type of data  since over 75% of my site usage is tied to bid data.



Peter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 754
    • View Profile
    • Lend Academy
    • Email
Re: No more info on loan investors and bids
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2013, 05:47:40 PM »
The new management told me this change was coming but I didn't think it would happen so quickly.

As someone who follows this space very closely I am disappointed that I will no longer be able to find out who is investing and how many bids Worth-blanket2 has made. But we have never had this data from Lending Club and from Prosper's perspective the negatives far outweighed the positives in having this data identified.

This data has been removed from the API as well although the good news on that front is that the new API should be publicly available in a matter of days.

And Rocco, you can ignore my email - I should have checked the forum first before sending it to you.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 11:32:59 AM by Peter »
Publisher of the Lend Academy blog

See my returns here: http://www.lendacademy.com/returns

ee1x

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: No more info on loan investors and bids
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2013, 06:24:55 PM »
What I don't understand is how privacy just became a concern recently... As far as I'm aware, Prosper has made this data public for years and investors have been fully aware of this fact prior to investing. I don't mind people looking at what I'm investing in. If they can beat me to it, or improve on my model, good! That's how a competitive market is supposed to work, right?

This change appears to be purely the result of pressure from large investors and has nothing to do with legal concerns. They are stripping away another piece of the community-oriented aspect that used to define this industry.
Investing since March 2012

Zach

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: No more info on loan investors and bids
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2013, 09:25:21 PM »
Simple alternative would be to allow just bids by dollar amount and time to be included in the data download.

investforfreedom

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
    • View Profile
Re: No more info on loan investors and bids
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2013, 10:29:17 PM »
Now they have taken away the only edge they have over LC, IMO.  Without being able to compare my performance to that of others, I doubt whether I can maintain 14%+ return (i. e., without having to invest heavily in the higher risk loans) with the Prosper platform.  I personally wouldn't just want 10-12% return with this type of investing, since some of our mutual funds have already been doing that for the past 10 years with no additional work on my part.


« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 10:46:01 PM by investforfreedom »

berniemadeoff

  • Guest
Re: No more info on loan investors and bids
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2013, 11:07:37 PM »
I have asked that they turn this data back on temporarily until their new API is made publicly available which would at least allow for alternate means of portfolio management on a per-user basis (such as finding previously late notes), but since I haven't heard anything, and bids still aren't appearing, I am going to assume it isn't going to happen.

Does anybody know what this means for those of us who simply want to see our own performance information on prosper-stats?  I'm not really too interested in who bids on what loan - I'm gonna live and die by my own filters and so far I'm surviving on life support. 

Are they no longer providing the default/payment status data on loans owned by each individual investor?  This would really suck.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 11:45:02 PM by berniemadeoff »

hippo387

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 42
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: No more info on loan investors and bids
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2013, 07:39:09 AM »
Just my opinion but Prosper is learning that the social media aspect, with user names and bids and all that, is not very important. What matters is how the notes are performing, not how other users are performing.

dagilbe

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: No more info on loan investors and bids
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2013, 08:58:23 AM »
I agree, it is a BIG MISTAKE for Prosper to eliminate the users names and the bid amounts.  Nobody knows who the individual users are anyway. 

For a company that has been really struggling to fill loans lately, I can't believe Prosper's road to recovery includes eliminating information to investors.  It's a slippery slope, and the migration of assets to LC has already commenced. 

berniemadeoff

  • Guest
Re: No more info on loan investors and bids
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2013, 01:17:50 PM »
Rocco, what is impacted by this change on your site? I know that the bid data is no longer available, but is the loan default/late data for each investor also hosed?

I believe loan volumes will pick up this month, but this change could sour my interest in Prosper for good.   >:(

investforfreedom

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
    • View Profile
Re: No more info on loan investors and bids
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2013, 01:39:55 PM »
Rocco, what is impacted by this change on your site? I know that the bid data is no longer available, but is the loan default/late data for each investor also hosed?

I believe loan volumes will pick up this month, but this change could sour my interest in Prosper for good.   >:(


Loan volume will pick up given that the likes of worth_blanket2 are back into the game.  But if they turn off a lot of retail investors with this data change, they might have a harder time consummating individual loans. Worth_blanket2 is not going to pitch in several hundred bucks at a time to get any given loan to the 70% funding threshold for instance. 

At any rate, if I can't keep clocking at 14%+ return (without investing heavily in D-HR loans) due to the lack of data, I don't see any more incentive to continue to invest through Prosper. 

berniemadeoff

  • Guest
Re: No more info on loan investors and bids
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2013, 02:32:15 PM »
I think a big challenge for me in p2p is that my performance is a complete black box for the first 10-12mo of my investment.  Sites like prosper-stats provide some window into future returns and the drivers of future performance in my loan portfolio.  You take that away and I have less visibility. 

If you told me I could invest with a stock fund with limited track record and told me that I could not track the fund's performance in a meaningful way for 12mo, I would tell you to take a hike.