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Lending Club Discussion => Investors - LC => Topic started by: TonySaunders on November 07, 2013, 01:24:01 PM

Title: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: TonySaunders on November 07, 2013, 01:24:01 PM
(https://forum.lendacademy.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftonysaunders.net%2Fpics%2Fnotesale.png&hash=37f6250384ac45878eecf6af58445acf)

I speculate that this was to prevent certain abuses. At least one of which I had become accustomed to looking out for and/or taking advantage of.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: brycemason on November 07, 2013, 01:45:51 PM
We all knew this was coming. I suspect half the people on this board will now disappear into the void.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: william on November 07, 2013, 01:57:06 PM
We started discussing this here...
http://www.lendacademy.com/forum/index.php?topic=1716.0

We all knew this was coming. I suspect half the people on this board will now disappear into the void.


For a split second I thought about it.... then I remembered all of those people in I think it was 2012 that closed thier accounts because LC didn't let them have custom questions if I remember correctly. Then all the people who left LC in 2011 for some other stupid reason which I can't even remember. My modo is evolve or die. Yes this completely obliterated my amazingly lucrative strategy but that will not stop me from finding a new one.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: New Jersey Guy on November 07, 2013, 02:16:49 PM
"Yes this completely obliterated my amazingly lucrative strategy but that will not stop me from finding a new one."

I see this making a big mess for relisting.  How are we supposed to keep track of the "4 Business Days"?  If I have 22 notes cancel over 4 days, how am I supposed to remember which ones will qualify for relisting tomorrow?

Secondly, 4 days off the market?  That's a lot of time to have a note just sitting there doing nothing.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: DanB on November 07, 2013, 02:34:31 PM
"Yes this completely obliterated my amazingly lucrative strategy but that will not stop me from finding a new one."

I see this making a big mess for relisting.  How are we supposed to keep track of the "4 Business Days"?  If I have 22 notes cancel over 4 days, how am I supposed to remember which ones will qualify for relisting tomorrow?

Secondly, 4 days off the market? That's a lot of time to have a note just sitting there doing nothing.

Though I can completely understand what you are saying & why you'd say this.................I'd suspect that 99+% of LC account holders would react to your statement by shrugging &/or by saying "so what". These changes & the changes that will continue arriving are not about the fringe. They do not take the wishes of the fringe into consideration. This is all about perception of a fairer marketplace............& that perception during the run up to IPO is the only thing that matters to them.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: core on November 07, 2013, 08:11:16 PM
Secondly, 4 days off the market?  That's a lot of time to have a note just sitting there doing nothing.

4 business days.  So in most cases that's 6 calendar days.  Maybe even a full week depending on how the exact timing works.  Then keep in mind (at least the way I think it works is) a pending trade is also cancelled if the payment starts processing.  So can we add an additional business day on the end, where you can post but it won't do anything useful?  For nearly a quarter of the month you will not be able to sell.

I suspect half the people on this board will now disappear into the void.

What makes you say that, Bryce?  Aside from william here and maybe a couple others, I don't know of many who made this their key strategy.  Not active posters, anyway.  Yes some other people are upset but probably not enough to cash out.  The fringers Dan speaks of will adapt.  The buy and holdies will get over the minor inconvenience.  I don't see anyone disappearing unless they were looking for an excuse to begin with.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: brycemason on November 07, 2013, 08:24:52 PM
Many people were using the IGP trick as a basis of their trading strategy. Half is hyperbole. Maybe you're right and they'll just adapt to a new way.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: Fred on November 07, 2013, 11:07:53 PM
Secondly, 4 days off the market?  That's a lot of time to have a note just sitting there doing nothing.

It still accrues interest to the note holder.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: Bohb Daishi on November 08, 2013, 03:18:42 AM
I suspect half the people on this board will now disappear into the void.

What makes you say that, Bryce?  Aside from william here and maybe a couple others, I don't know of many who made this their key strategy.  Not active posters, anyway.  Yes some other people are upset but probably not enough to cash out.  The fringers Dan speaks of will adapt.  The buy and holdies will get over the minor inconvenience.  I don't see anyone disappearing unless they were looking for an excuse to begin with.

Trading is evolution at it's finest: adapt quickly or you lose. I have little sympathy for those whose strategy was ended. It was based on an exploit - it was only a matter of time before it got fixed. Take your earnings and move on to the next opportunity.

4 business days.  So in most cases that's 6 calendar days.  Maybe even a full week depending on how the exact timing works.  Then keep in mind (at least the way I think it works is) a pending trade is also cancelled if the payment starts processing.  So can we add an additional business day on the end, where you can post but it won't do anything useful?  For nearly a quarter of the month you will not be able to sell.

My favorite part of this is that orders that are very far past due (and/or bankrupt) also get cancelled due to "payment processing".
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: Joleran on November 08, 2013, 09:05:34 AM
My favorite part of this is that orders that are very far past due (and/or bankrupt) also get cancelled due to "payment processing".

This is incredibly annoying.  I had several notes pending sale, still in grace, but because there's a payment processing with a date 2 weeks from now on a payment plan they were cancelled.  Now I'm holding the bag and will probably eat a bigger loss due to this incompetent design.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: New Jersey Guy on November 08, 2013, 10:00:48 AM
"Secondly, 4 days off the market?  That's a lot of time to have a note just sitting there doing nothing."

"It still accrues interest to the note holder."


Doesn't mean a darn thing if the borrower isn't paying to begin with. 
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: Ran on November 08, 2013, 03:50:36 PM
"Yes this completely obliterated my amazingly lucrative strategy but that will not stop me from finding a new one."

I see this making a big mess for relisting.  How are we supposed to keep track of the "4 Business Days"?  If I have 22 notes cancel over 4 days, how am I supposed to remember which ones will qualify for relisting tomorrow?

Secondly, 4 days off the market?  That's a lot of time to have a note just sitting there doing nothing.
Guys, let us be honest. LC is trying to protect young guns who are LC's bread & butter. When those guys drove for credit-soaring-up notes and only to find out all notes are cancelled due to payment posting except those changed into "In Grace Period" the second day, they fell pissed off 8). If I am a professional like New Jersey Guy, I will not complain. I will find new ways to milk the cow, not to scare young guns off.   
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: New Jersey Guy on November 08, 2013, 04:07:53 PM
" If I am a professional like New Jersey Guy, I will not complain"

Now, now now!  I just had this conversation with DanB this morning!  I never participated in that "grey area" of trading!  Despite what you might have read, I do have a conscience.

Besides, my Folio forte' is fleecing the elderly out of their life savings.

Anybody interested in a bridge?
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: Ran on November 08, 2013, 04:24:03 PM
" If I am a professional like New Jersey Guy, I will not complain"

Now, now now!  I just had this conversation with DanB this morning!  I never participated in that "grey area" of trading!  Despite what you might have read, I do have a conscience.

Besides, my Folio forte' is fleecing the elderly out of their life savings.

Anybody interested in a bridge?
This is a related topic: I actually wondered before why LC does not allow guys bid up the notes in the primary issue market. Then I figured out that young guys will drive up the price in good times but completely disappear in bad times. Those guys do not like volatility but every one needs them, both LC and professionals, to keep the market moving. I always liken this strategy to milk the cow. Farmer are apparent gainer, and if a cow can milk without eating grass, farmer will not feed them. Farmers will feed them only to point that cow can milk. LC will always give big money advantage, but have a protection policy in place for young guns just make sure they do not go away.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: yaoyao on November 08, 2013, 05:21:51 PM
This new change also means that we will no longer get cancelled orders due to payment.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: Joleran on November 08, 2013, 07:14:52 PM
This new change also means that we will no longer get cancelled orders due to payment.

Have you confirmed this?  How does a payment figure in to the sale?

For example: note listed for $10 and sale is queued.  Payment of $1 is posted and is sent to...?  Note settles next day.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: GS on November 09, 2013, 11:27:26 AM
Yesterday, I had my first note miss a payment since the rule change.  I figured it would go to IGP and I could put it for sale today.  NOPE.  Now it's listed as Processing Payment Plan, with a new withdrawal date scheduled in a few days, and won't let me post it.  I assume that by time I'm allowed to post it for sale (assuming the second withdrawal attempt fails), it will be at or near 16 days overdue.  I'll have to see how this plays out. 

LC blew it with the way they are handling this.  I can understand why they wanted to close the loophole, but I can think of a few better ways to do it than this. 
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: Ran on November 09, 2013, 12:35:46 PM
Yesterday, I had my first note miss a payment since the rule change.  I figured it would go to IGP and I could put it for sale today.  NOPE.  Now it's listed as Processing Payment Plan, with a new withdrawal date scheduled in a few days, and won't let me post it.  I assume that by time I'm allowed to post it for sale (assuming the second withdrawal attempt fails), it will be at or near 16 days overdue.  I'll have to see how this plays out. 

LC blew it with the way they are handling this.  I can understand why they wanted to close the loophole, but I can think of a few better ways to do it than this.

A better way may be to allow notes in IGP, late or default to go for sale regardless of the payment situation. Those notes usually are not the targets of young guns who usually do not buy D-G notes, not even to mention these performance-tarnished notes. 
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: Joleran on November 09, 2013, 03:14:06 PM
A better way may be to allow notes in IGP, late or default to go for sale regardless of the payment situation. Those notes usually are not the targets of young guns who usually do not buy D-G notes, not even to mention these performance-tarnished notes.

Ran, you've got a thing for the phase "young guns", is that yours and what do you mean by it?
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: Ran on November 09, 2013, 03:55:33 PM
A better way may be to allow notes in IGP, late or default to go for sale regardless of the payment situation. Those notes usually are not the targets of young guns who usually do not buy D-G notes, not even to mention these performance-tarnished notes.

Ran, you've got a thing for the phase "young guns", is that yours and what do you mean by it?
There was a movie "Young guns", about a group of young gun men in the west who were taught by a rich men to read and civilized and then formed a gangster, but people honored  them for justice.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: New Jersey Guy on November 09, 2013, 05:44:03 PM
I just logged onto my Folio account and saw that the number of notes I had for sale had decreased.  Sales?  NOPE....CANCELATIONS!  Now we're not even safe on weekends!

My notes are dropping like flies!
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: core on November 09, 2013, 07:12:45 PM
I just logged onto my Folio account and saw that the number of notes I had for sale had decreased.  Sales?  NOPE....CANCELATIONS!  Now we're not even safe on weekends!

My notes are dropping like flies!

I was surprised by this too.  When I first heard of this change I thought it was simply a very bad deal.  Now when I see all the details of the way it was implemented, how it affects notes nowhere near payment settlement, this is absolutely freaking ridiculous.

If what Zach said in another thread is true about LC not retaining a cent of that 1% trading fee, then they really have little motivation for allowing you to trade notes at all.  They have to write all the code, handle all the phone calls and support, buy all the servers, but collect nothing for their trouble.  This change has likely cost FOLIOfn a lot of money...  25% reduction in trading commissions overnight.  Perhaps this is exactly what LC wants.  LC may be trying to sour the relationship and get out of the deal.  Notice how the legalese is very careful to say the trading platform may not exist in the future.  I don't think LC anticipated the trading platform generating this kind of revenue and volume.  They now realize they are handing Folio a bit fat check each month for doing nothing but having Folio's name on stuff.  LC now wants in on the action, or at least to end that free money stream for Folio.  The losers here are you and me.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: GS on November 09, 2013, 08:45:32 PM
FWIW, the "processing" status on my IGP note did clear up today and I was allowed to list it.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: DanB on November 09, 2013, 09:13:28 PM
I just logged onto my Folio account and saw that the number of notes I had for sale had decreased.  Sales?  NOPE....CANCELATIONS!  Now we're not even safe on weekends!

My notes are dropping like flies!

I was surprised by this too.  When I first heard of this change I thought it was simply a very bad deal.  Now when I see all the details of the way it was implemented, how it affects notes nowhere near payment settlement, this is absolutely freaking ridiculous.

If what Zach said in another thread is true about LC not retaining a cent of that 1% trading fee, then they really have little motivation for allowing you to trade notes at all.  They have to write all the code, handle all the phone calls and support, buy all the servers, but collect nothing for their trouble.  This change has likely cost FOLIOfn a lot of money...  25% reduction in trading commissions overnight.  Perhaps this is exactly what LC wants.  LC may be trying to sour the relationship and get out of the deal.  Notice how the legalese is very careful to say the trading platform may not exist in the future.  I don't think LC anticipated the trading platform generating this kind of revenue and volume.  They now realize they are handing Folio a bit fat check each month for doing nothing but having Folio's name on stuff.  LC now wants in on the action, or at least to end that free money stream for Folio.  The losers here are you and me.




Well, much more you than me actually.  :)

 I'm not interested in having a serious conversation regarding the secondary market on a public forum, because a number of people are bound to be bent out of shape, among other reasons...................but I don't think it takes some sophisticated crystal ball to see where this will likely end up. PM me if you'd like to converse privately.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: LC Adv on November 10, 2013, 09:22:05 AM
I think Folio was established so as to give people the capability of selling out if necessary ( i.e. in case of emergency etc)., or just to be able to state that there is a way out if necessary due to extenuating circumstances. I do not believe the intent had ever been to create a robust fully transparent "Note Exchange", as should be obvious from the fact that LC makes nothing from exchange trades. As for people in Folio only states, the intent was not to enable them to participate , but as an aside the question came up of how do we who live in Folio only states participate and the off the cuff answer was -use Folio. But rather than having disgruntled investors dragging in all the Securities regulators it may be easier to totally restrict out all the "Dubious Transactions" which may ensnare all sorts of "non-Dubious Transactions" as collateral damage and just allow the original transactions Folio was created for. The Emergency exit for a portfolio.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: core on November 10, 2013, 08:55:51 PM
it may be easier to totally restrict out all the "Dubious Transactions" which may ensnare all sorts of "non-Dubious Transactions" as collateral damage and just allow the original transactions Folio was created for. The Emergency exit for a portfolio.

I see.  So it is acceptable to sell notes to cover some unexpected medical bills (emergency), but it's not OK to sell notes if you want a new kitchen and are a bit short on cash (non-emergency).  I think I'm with you so far.

Now we just need a way to determine what's a bona fide emergency and what is not.  I don't know about you guys, but when a borrower's FICO drops from 720 to 560 in a single month that's an emergency to me!  :)  I could probably think up several hundred emergencies per day if I put my mind to it.  Sick cow.  Chicken pecked my eyeball out.

I propose that when you go to sell a note, you have to answer a series of questions randomly selected from a question pool:

What is your intended use of the note sale proceeds?
If you have posted a note for sale in the past 2 years, please explain the reason.
What are your current monthly expenses (rent, transportation, utilities, phone, insurance, food, etc)?
Please explain the reason you carry such a large portfolio of notes for sale.

Unfortunately this does not prevent the note seller from lying when answering the questions.  We will need to distribute USB lie detector devices to each investor.  That seems expensive.  An alternative might be for LC to conduct 15 minute phone interviews with the investor before each note sale.  They could charge a 20% fee to cover the costs of this time.

I think we're getting somewhere now.

I do not believe the intent had ever been to create a robust fully transparent "Note Exchange"

Without a robust market, just who do you think is going to buy your notes when you do have that emergency??  Create a secondary market just so they can say there's a way out but then prevent anyone from actually using it?  That's ingenious, in a dark sort of way.  I like it.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: New Jersey Guy on November 10, 2013, 11:19:37 PM
You do an online transaction and purchase 100 shares of ABC stock.  The next day, ABC declares bankruptcy.  Feeling you got screwed, you call your brokerage firm and tell them you don't want the stock and they should refund your money back.  They tell you that the proposed bankruptcy was no new news, and you should have done your due diligence. 

Congratulations.....you own the stock.

This has been the problem for Lending Club all along.  Cry babies who call them up asking for Folio reversals because they get buyer remorse.  LC is not Folio!  If Core sells a note to me at a 20% markup, shame on me for being so stupid!  If you buy a Processing note that goes IGP in two days, shame on you for not looking!  It doesn't matter what kind of cheating system you claim the seller was using.  His system is NEVER good enough to force you to hit the "Buy" button. It all comes down to common sense which apparently, many investors don't have.

Personally, I think LC should have just continued with their online warnings which continually separated them from Folio.  Eventually, most of the fools would get the hint.  Despite this, though, there are still a few brain-deads out there who really need to be taken off of life support. 

Oh, by the way.  I had a sold note get cancelled today.  Sunday.  No day is safe.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: DanB on November 10, 2013, 11:53:48 PM
Core.............In the longer term I believe that individuals who have exhibited the tendency to have multiple "emergencies" in rapid succession, (ex. more than 1 emergency per day) be put on a temporary "no selling" list until an independent investigative commission can hear their case thoroughly & determine the nature of these alleged legitimate emergencies. :)

In order to insure that each case is exhaustively & impartially investigated I believe that investigations need to be conducted by a non-LC employee. I realize that I am way too controversial for this post (plus I'd die of boredom) so I recommend none other than the former unrestricted Q&A Grand Inquisitor known to veteran LC investors as RetiredUSMC, to head this investigative commission. He will have the authority to ask an unlimited number of questions (all in CAPS)  :) & for as long as he deems it necessary in order to determine the nature & pattern of these "emergencies".

Upon completion of this investigation (which may involve 20 or 60 emails & take anywhere from 10 to X amount of days), the probationary offender (ex. Core) will either be allowed to continue his activities without restriction for 3 months pending further review, have already expired through natural causes or be told that a permanent restriction be placed on his account barring no more than a total of 60 buys & sells per month. (this number may be further restricted without notice) 

Other investors need not be concerned regarding any of the above because the salary of the Grand Inquisitor & his staff will come out of a special excise tax on only the investors who exhibit the 2 following characteristics:
1. Extraordinary return numbers within the top 1% of all investors.
&
2.Who also seem to experience a lot of daily "emergencies" in their life. :)
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: core on November 11, 2013, 12:19:42 AM
Amen about the cry babies bothering LC due to their own lack of common sense.  No matter how many protections you add, there will never be a way to compensate for sheer stupidity.  If someone wants to lose money badly enough they will find a way.  What wil happen once you add so many protections that penalize the seller is eventually you reopen loopholes on the buying end.  Prosper, for example, is wide open to such things. 

Personally, I think LC should have just continued with their online warnings which continually separated them from Folio.

Yeah but the thing is there is no separate Folio deal.  Those warnings are blantant lies!

You are about to leave the LendingClub website and enter the note trading platform website operated by Foliofn Investments, Inc. (Foliofn)

False.  Lending Club runs the whole thing.  Folio doesn't "operate" anything on that site.  Folio has nothing to do with it except for the "settlement".  The site is littered with similar lies.  Why do we allow them to continue this deceit?

For those of you who mentioned regulators getting involved (LC Adv), maybe those regulators should start with this low hanging fruit before they go talk to the guy who lost a quarter.  LC posting falsehoods on its site to shift the blame to a straw man.  Then said regulators can go after the IRA coverup while they're there.  They might also want to look into the dissemination of insider information to a select few individuals weeks/months ahead of planned major changes which will have a dramatic affect on the market price of securities (certain notes).  Just a thought.

Oh, by the way.  I had a sold note get cancelled today.  Sunday.  No day is safe.

I had a _bunch_ get canceled today too.  Cancelling sales on the Lord's day!  What will these heathens do next?
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: core on November 11, 2013, 12:28:53 AM
I realize that I am way too controversial for this post (plus I'd die of boredom) so I recommend none other than the former unrestricted Q&A Grand Inquisitor known to veteran LC investors as RetiredUSMC, to head this investigative commission.

Haha yeah I remember that guy.  You know what, it would almost be worth it losing all my trading privs for a while if I got the chance to get grilled by that character.  Which reminds me, happy Veteran's Day everyone.  So no settlements or payments today, but you can bet that LC will still be cancelling sales.  If the Lord's day isn't sacred to them then they likely won't have any respect for our fallen heroes, either.

In the longer term I believe that individuals who have exhibited the tendency to have multiple "emergencies" in rapid succession, (ex. more than 1 emergency per day) be put on a temporary "no selling" list until an independent investigative commission can hear their case thoroughly & determine the nature of these alleged legitimate emergencies. :)

Dan you may not yet have seen Peter's post in the other thread where he says there are plans in the works for a new, competing trading platform.  Does that sound to you like things were winding down trading-wise?   Sure doesn't to me!  I for one am excited about the idea.  I could post details about how I'd get around your trading death panel but I don't think it'll be necessary now.  There may be even more profits to be made in the future.  Have some optimism Dan.  More sharks in the water for you to chase.  Clever sharks with lots of new sharkie ideas.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: rlv99 on November 11, 2013, 12:37:19 AM
I believe that there may be other reasons for these new rules.

From other threads on this site, we all know that LC's payment processing and collection procedures are fraught with inconsistencies and very possibly erroneous.  The payment and collection logs are vague, illogical, variable from one loan's log to another, and changable thereby making the logs of little help when attempting to determine the real ststus of a loan's payment history.

Since we pay LC to collect and post the payments to our account, these new rules, imo, help to insulate LC from accusations of mismanagement and/or breach of fiduciary responsibilty since payments on loans in the process of being collected can no longer be traded.  Presumably, these new rules give LC about 10 days to get their collection "act" together.  It will be interesting to see if they use this extra time wisely.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: DanB on November 11, 2013, 12:50:29 AM
I realize that I am way too controversial for this post (plus I'd die of boredom) so I recommend none other than the former unrestricted Q&A Grand Inquisitor known to veteran LC investors as RetiredUSMC, to head this investigative commission.

Haha yeah I remember that guy.  You know what, it would almost be worth it losing all my trading privs for a while if I got the chance to get grilled by that character.  Which reminds me, happy Veteran's Day everyone.

In the longer term I believe that individuals who have exhibited the tendency to have multiple "emergencies" in rapid succession, (ex. more than 1 emergency per day) be put on a temporary "no selling" list until an independent investigative commission can hear their case thoroughly & determine the nature of these alleged legitimate emergencies. :)

Dan you may not yet have seen Peter's post in the other thread where he says there are plans in the works for a new, competing trading platform.  Does that sound to you like things were winding down trading-wise?   Sure doesn't to me!  I for one am excited about the idea.  I could post details about how I'd get around your trading death panel but I don't think it'll be necessary now.  There may be even more profits to be made in the future.  Have some optimism Dan.  More sharks in the water for you to chase.  Clever sharks with lots of new sharkie ideas.


No, I didn't see it. Was it one of those posts where he says whatever & ends with stay tuned, will follow closely or words to that effect? I see, well if you don't mind I'll wait for the movie instead. So do you believe this new proposed platform is also going to be run secretly by LC?  :)

Oh please do. I am always open to feedback, revisions & improvement.

PS...........I just read Peter's post about the secondary market. I especially liked the part where he said that he knew of "at least one company" that was in the idea stage of creating a secondary market competitor. If it was one, just say one. If it's two or three, just say the number. I don't see the harm. But ok, I'm willing to accept that I suppose, if you guys in turn accept this................I know of at least one company (my own) that is in the idea stage of planning a mission out of the solar system. Once we get funding, build a craft, steal some NASA data, license the propulsion from the Russians & etc etc............we will be on our way in 18-24 years.  :) Stay tuned for updates. 
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: yojoakak on November 11, 2013, 09:37:41 AM
Lending Club runs the whole thing.  Folio doesn't "operate" anything on that site.  Folio has nothing to do with it except for the "settlement". 

They even go through the trouble to "brand" the sites differently, which I think that's kind of funny.

For example:

https://www.lendingclub.com/account/loanPerf.action?loan_id=1206550&order_id=2503892&note_id=9592772

https://www.lendingclub.com/foliofn/loanPerf.action?loan_id=1206550&order_id=2503892&note_id=9592772
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: core on November 11, 2013, 09:48:08 AM
They even go through the trouble to "brand" the sites differently, which I think that's kind of funny.

Yep.  I was going to assemble a laundry-list of "proof" last night, but decided it was a lost cause.  Dan is calling me nuts for saying that, and the level-headed newcomer Bohb Daishi seems to be a true believer based on what he said about the "buy-vs-make" argument.  Peter said something about conflict of interest just yesterday too, which makes me think even he was taken in by this farce... that or playing along.  I think this is all going to fall on deaf years, yojoakak.  Sounds like Zach knows the score though.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: Bohb Daishi on November 11, 2013, 12:06:13 PM
the level-headed newcomer Bohb Daishi seems to be a true believer based on what he said about the "buy-vs-make" argument.

I think that's the first time anyone has called me "level-headed". I take it as a compliment.

I'd be willing to bet that Folio operates very similar to SalesForce. It's all on the cloud, housed in Folio's servers. Folio's core software is then customized by LendingClub and is then magically linked up to LC's database. That "magic link" is one of the reasons why there are a lot of problems, or technical inefficiencies, in the market.

This could explain why trades take a full business day to settle. Also explains why pending trades don't show up in LC's main site and why the two platforms look -and feel- so different.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: core on November 11, 2013, 01:17:57 PM
I think that's the first time anyone has called me "level-headed". I take it as a compliment.

It was meant as one.  Earned.  Now I do understand that someone doesn't generally come to a new forum and start spouting off UN-level-headed stuff (even if they're thinking it).  I mean when I had just 23 posts I probably sounded pretty level-headed too.  Well except for that LC conspiracy about the fake building.  And the moon landings.  And maybe a few other things.  Ok after further thought, I take it all back.  But yes you've thus far been pretty level-headed even though you've fallen for "their" tricks.

It's all on the cloud, housed in Folio's servers.

Dear Lordie, not "the cloud".  Please tell me you're not a salesperson.  My brother is a salesperson.  He talks just like you do.  I implement stuff; I write code.  He talks to people and pretends like he knows what he's selling.  I asked him what the h3ll the cloud can be when it's in the same room as all the other stuff.  I guess now a cloud can be anything composed of 2 devices spaced 1cm apart.  Hey I guess my personal machine is a cloud since I have external USB storage.  Salesperson told me that doesn't count.  Ok great.  Everything settled.

Folio's core software is then customized by LendingClub and is then magically linked up to LC's database. That "magic link" is one of the reasons why there are a lot of problems, or technical inefficiencies, in the market.

My suspicion is that many of the observed technical inefficiencies are caused by either a load-balancing reverse proxy or a slaved database setup.  I could be wrong.  This explanation does have the advantage in that it does not rely on magic.

This could explain why trades take a full business day to settle.

The trades take a full business day to settle to give them time to screw us.  And so they can cancel anything that they can pre-determine is going to make us money.  Also I am sure that there are legal reasons.  Same as why T+3 exists for stocks, or even for options it's still T+1.  The difference is, for options and stocks, the 'settlement' date really has no bearing on anything.  You can trade right out of it minutes later for a profit even though you won't receive the shares until 3 days later.  (Assuming you're not free-riding on a cash account.)  Note trading should be the same.  It can be.

Also explains why pending trades don't show up in LC's main site and why the two platforms look -and feel- so different.

You can talk about "-feel-".  I'm going to talk about code.  And it's exactly the same.  Even an outsider can get a good sample of the programmer(s) tendencies just by getting into it.  You begin to write code for a site, and even before going to the next page on the site you can anticipate exactly what they did, exactly what small mistakes they made.  And when you move over to a "whole different site" (/foliofn) then when you see the same rounding errors and same obscure approaches were used, well it doesn't take too many smarts to realize what's really going on.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: Joleran on November 11, 2013, 02:10:53 PM
Do we have any confirmed sightings of what happens when a payment is posted on a note for sale after the changes?
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: core on November 11, 2013, 02:37:01 PM
Do we have any confirmed sightings of what happens when a payment is posted on a note for sale after the changes?

Can you clarify the question?  The trades get busted the day after a normally-scheduled payment posts, as always.  At least mine did.  Perhaps you were asking about a different situation?
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: Joleran on November 11, 2013, 05:15:17 PM
Can you clarify the question?  The trades get busted the day after a normally-scheduled payment posts, as always.  At least mine did.  Perhaps you were asking about a different situation?

Wouldn't the normally scheduled posts have a "Processing..." state that nixes them anyway?  I meant more like grace period notes for sale that just have a payment post with no apparent processing.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: core on November 11, 2013, 05:37:13 PM
Wouldn't the normally scheduled posts have a "Processing..." state that nixes them anyway?

Sure, they get "nixed" on the day that they are scheduled.  But let's just say for the sake of argument that one was still able to post them.  Then they would be subject to the previous cancellation rules.  No more, no less.

I meant more like grace period notes for sale that just have a payment post with no apparent processing.

That one I don't know about.  I guarantee 100+ lurkers know about it though... now.  Profit is going to be limited by that.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: Joleran on November 11, 2013, 06:03:27 PM
That one I don't know about.  I guarantee 100+ lurkers know about it though... now.  Profit is going to be limited by that.

Core, you think that lending club is going to let 30% discounted grace notes go for sale after a payment posts and let the buyer get away with a near 30% discounted current note?  I didn't really think they'd do anything to change their payment posted = cancelled policy, but I wanted to see if anyone saw differently.

One thing I definitely see is the stupid "Processing.." status pop up on the monthly anniversary of note on payment plans.  That royally sucks, and can make a note almost impossible to list if they don't fix it.
Title: Re: Starting today, Folio prevents selling notes with processing payments.
Post by: Bohb Daishi on November 12, 2013, 01:32:43 AM
I mean when I had just 23 posts I probably sounded pretty level-headed too.  Well except for that LC conspiracy about the fake building.  And the moon landings.
The only conspiracy theories you'll hear me talking about are related to the corruption I've seen on Wall Street and on the Futures markets.

Please tell me you're not a salesperson.
Nope. I'm just some upstart kid who works nights for a trading firm at the CBOT.

This could explain why trades take a full business day to settle.
The trades take a full business day to settle to give them time to screw us.  And so they can cancel anything that they can pre-determine is going to make us money.  Also I am sure that there are legal reasons.  Same as why T+3 exists for stocks, or even for options it's still T+1.  The difference is, for options and stocks, the 'settlement' date really has no bearing on anything.  You can trade right out of it minutes later for a profit even though you won't receive the shares until 3 days later.  (Assuming you're not free-riding on a cash account.)  Note trading should be the same.  It can be.[/quote]

There's no excuse for the all-electronic stock/options exchanges to not have same-day or immediate settlement. It's just a big scheme they employ so the brokers and clearing firms can make a few extra pennies on their margin loans.