Lend Academy Network Forum

Lending Club Discussion => Investors - LC => Topic started by: Lovinglifestyle on December 11, 2013, 11:35:12 AM

Title: New Front Page Pie Graph?
Post by: Lovinglifestyle on December 11, 2013, 11:35:12 AM
Why doesn't the front page pie graph say "Debt Consolidation" on it???  Is it because somebody thinks that concept and vocabulary is beyond the borrowers' brain waves?  If so, it's insulting and I'm not amused.

"Credit Card Payoff" is not the same thing and is not used on the Browse page.

While I'm on at least the same topic of words on a page, I'm also fed up with the generic, boring title censorship.
Title: Re: New Front Page Pie Graph?
Post by: core on December 11, 2013, 11:48:43 AM
I've always found it strange/confusing that they have "Debt consolidation" and "Credit card refinancing".  It could be argued that one is a subset of another and either one would be correct.  So it doesn't insult me that they switch around the wording because the distinction seems meaningless anyway, if borrowers get to choose either one. 

What title censorship are you referring to?
Title: Re: New Front Page Pie Graph?
Post by: rlv99 on December 11, 2013, 01:56:47 PM
I'm also fed up with the generic, boring title censorship

Workplace title?  Yes, however, doesn't seem to matter since borrowers seem to "exaggerate" their title and LC doesn't check that anyway
Title: Re: New Front Page Pie Graph?
Post by: nonattender on December 11, 2013, 02:27:51 PM
Why doesn't the front page pie graph say "Debt Consolidation" on it???  Is it because somebody thinks that concept and vocabulary is beyond the borrowers' brain waves?  If so, it's insulting and I'm not amused.

"Credit Card Payoff" is not the same thing and is not used on the Browse page.

I think that's actually quite smart, from a neurolinguistic perspective...  There's a subtle, but important, implicity in the act of "paying off
(and presumably not running up again) one's credit cards" versus merely "consolidating (and implicitly continuing)" one's debt.  I like it.
Title: Re: New Front Page Pie Graph?
Post by: Fred on December 12, 2013, 12:07:21 AM
The LC Statistics Page (https://www.lendingclub.com/info/demand-and-credit-profile.action) still specifies "Debt Consolidation"  as one of the Loan Purposes.  See attached.

Personally, I think the pie chart on the front page is a part of marketing collateral, manually prepared by human.  The statistics page, on the other hand, contains live, dynamically generated charts.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: New Front Page Pie Graph?
Post by: Lovinglifestyle on December 12, 2013, 12:40:07 AM
Thanks for all the discussion.
I wrote a reply earlier today but for some reason it didn't post because a new post came in before I finished and I only clicked post once.  Can't do it over--should have saved it for my own benefit just in case that happened.

The filter selections also use different wording for the two money categories.  It doesn't matter except for refinancing being less risky or providing higher returns than debt consolidation.

Regarding my reference to loan titles, I have seen creative, informative, explanatory, amusing titles changed to the generic titles of "Debt Consolidation" and "Refinance" within minutes of posting.  Then I have to click on a bunch to find the one I want to check out, but now cannot quickly locate by name. 

Work titles are a whole 'nother thing--somebody could start a fun thread about them?

I like Core's point about the borrowers getting to choose which category they want.  I've often argued with them in my head about which
choice they made!

Title: Re: New Front Page Pie Graph?
Post by: core on December 12, 2013, 12:49:54 AM
Regarding my reference to loan titles, I have seen creative, informative, explanatory, amusing titles changed to the generic titles of "Debt Consolidation" and "Refinance" within minutes of posting.

No kidding??  Wow.  This I did not know.  LC taking information that would be of benefit to lenders and CHANGING IT.  Without telling anyone.  The borrower could have written "Need money to buy booze" and LC might change it to "Major purchase".  There are lenders who base their decisions on how the borrower capitalizes, spells, and so on.  To say nothing of the substance of the title itself.  I would think LC is placing themselves in major legal trouble by editing borrower-entered borrower data and hanging it out as the borrowers' own words.

Anyone here running a bot that would be able to keep track of such changes?  I'm dying to see a list of some of these that get changed each day.
Title: Re: New Front Page Pie Graph?
Post by: DanB on December 12, 2013, 01:11:12 AM
Regarding my reference to loan titles, I have seen creative, informative, explanatory, amusing titles changed to the generic titles of "Debt Consolidation" and "Refinance" within minutes of posting.

No kidding??  Wow.  This I did not know.  LC taking information that would be of benefit to lenders and CHANGING IT.  Without telling anyone.  The borrower could have written "Need money to buy booze" and LC might change it to "Major purchase". There are lenders who base their decisions on how the borrower capitalizes, spells, and so on.  To say nothing of the substance of the title itself.  I would think LC is placing themselves in major legal trouble by editing borrower-entered borrower data and hanging it out as the borrowers' own words.

Anyone here running a bot that would be able to keep track of such changes?  I'm dying to see a list of some of these that get changed each day.

Well you got to admit that for some people that may very well be a "major purchase"! :) I happen to know someone whose regular champagne purchases (by the cases) in order to make mimosas may one day require a LC loan just in order to finance.   

Yes, there are lenders that do that. Considering that all that information in which they are basing their decisions on are unverified & voluntarily submitted, I think that these lenders themselves should all be put into a category, perhaps labeled "special". 
Title: Re: New Front Page Pie Graph?
Post by: Bohb Daishi on December 12, 2013, 04:20:30 AM
Yes, there are lenders that do that. Considering that all that information in which they are basing their decisions on are unverified & voluntarily submitted, I think that these lenders themselves should all be put into a category, perhaps labeled "special".

What about lenders who refuse to lend money towards Medical Expenses? I for one will NEVER invest in one of these notes, regardless of the credit quality. If you have to take out a huge loan for Medical Expenses, you are probably on your way to either not working (i.e. no income) or death (i.e. selling the note to NJG).
Title: Re: New Front Page Pie Graph?
Post by: rawraw on December 12, 2013, 05:56:04 AM
I wish Debt Consolidation and Credit Card refinance were kept seperate, but that the actual credit card refinances weren't often under debt consolidation.  I like consolidating debt I have some verification on through the revolving balance from the credit report.
Title: Re: New Front Page Pie Graph?
Post by: DanB on December 12, 2013, 06:03:53 AM
Yes, there are lenders that do that. Considering that all that information in which they are basing their decisions on are unverified & voluntarily submitted, I think that these lenders themselves should all be put into a category, perhaps labeled "special".

What about lenders who refuse to lend money towards Medical Expenses? I for one will NEVER invest in one of these notes, regardless of the credit quality. If you have to take out a huge loan for Medical Expenses, you are probably on your way to either not working (i.e. no income) or death (i.e. selling the note to NJG).

You're right, that would be one category. But then loans with that stated purpose are a really small percent nowadays, aren't they? So much so, I didn't even remember them.
Title: Re: New Front Page Pie Graph?
Post by: Bohb Daishi on December 12, 2013, 06:36:48 AM
What about lenders who refuse to lend money towards Medical Expenses? I for one will NEVER invest in one of these notes, regardless of the credit quality. If you have to take out a huge loan for Medical Expenses, you are probably on your way to either not working (i.e. no income) or death (i.e. selling the note to NJG).

You're right, that would be one category. But then loans with that stated purpose are a really small percent nowadays, aren't they? So much so, I didn't even remember them.

I've seen a lot of "debt consolidation" notes with borrower responses saying it's used for maybe 30% credit cards, 20% car, and 50% medical bills. I even shy away from those. I'd rather Aunt Sally die because she can't pay for a medical treatment than risk her not paying me back. :D
Title: Re: New Front Page Pie Graph?
Post by: DanB on December 13, 2013, 12:42:48 AM
What about lenders who refuse to lend money towards Medical Expenses? I for one will NEVER invest in one of these notes, regardless of the credit quality. If you have to take out a huge loan for Medical Expenses, you are probably on your way to either not working (i.e. no income) or death (i.e. selling the note to NJG).

You're right, that would be one category. But then loans with that stated purpose are a really small percent nowadays, aren't they? So much so, I didn't even remember them.

I've seen a lot of "debt consolidation" notes with borrower responses saying it's used for maybe 30% credit cards, 20% car, and 50% medical bills. I even shy away from those. I'd rather Aunt Sally die because she can't pay for a medical treatment than risk her not paying me back. :D

I haven't read borrower responses or loan descriptions in years, literally. I've been with LC for over 4 years now & though I still maintain my accounts daily, the novelty aspect wore out years ago. I doubt I spend more than 5 seconds looking at each note nowadays before making a decision. As far as I'm concerned, ability to pay is the only thing that really matters. The rest is pretty much just various degrees of noise.

Title: Re: New Front Page Pie Graph?
Post by: core on December 13, 2013, 01:03:33 AM
As far as I'm concerned, ability to pay is the only thing that really matters.

But there is no way to determine that with the "information" given.  You don't necessarily know his real income and you sure don't know what expenses/obligations he might have that aren't reflected on his credit report.  Restitution, child support, alimony, non-collection medical bill payment plans, tax debt arrangements, court ordered counseling.  You cannot know his ability to pay squat.
Title: Re: New Front Page Pie Graph?
Post by: DanB on December 13, 2013, 03:53:00 AM
Core..........You know what, I think you're right. This state of affairs is most unsatisfactory.

Perhaps tomorrow, after you're done with your animal husbandry activities, you would be so good as to draft a proposal outlining a superior, yet legal method of verifying borrower information, ability to pay etc. Post that here & Peter (or someone else you know) can submit it to his pals at LC who will undoubtedly form an interdepartmental feasibility committee to examine your proposals. Then after an exhaustive study that examines arguments from all sides, the suggestions of the committee can be passed on to a select group of individuals, consultants, a few journalists for further study. In due course & after a period of discussion between the aforementioned parties, the course of action recommended which will be an amalgamation of all the divergent views above can then be given back to Peter who will do an investigation & determine that complete transparency occurred throughout the process. Then Peter can do a blog post & say the usual things, which I'm sure you're already familiar with already.

How about it?  Are you in? Would the process be acceptable to you?  :)
Title: Re: New Front Page Pie Graph?
Post by: ThinleyWangchuk on December 24, 2013, 12:33:27 AM
Credit card loans average 18-24% APR thus it makes sense for a borrower to come to LC and borrow at 15%ish.  However, personal loans, HELOCS and car lines usually carry a maximum interest rate of 12%.  Thus it is not practical for a borrower @ 15%ish on LC.  Those who borrow for CC consolidation are likely to use the money for legitimate purposes, whereas those who borrow for other debt consolidation are likely frauds.

Disclosure: The statement above is 100% speculation.
Title: Re: New Front Page Pie Graph?
Post by: Zach on December 24, 2013, 02:58:04 AM
While your above statement would seem logical, many borrowers simply don't institute logical thinking in their decisions. To them, they may rather have one fixed monthly debt payment as opposed to many individual credit card payments, HELOC payments, etc. In other words, it's not that uncommon to see a borrower consolidating debt that's at a lower interest rate.
Title: Re: New Front Page Pie Graph?
Post by: pplinvestor on December 24, 2013, 05:44:41 PM
If borrower borrows at higher interests at LC to pay/consolidate lower interest loans, it will mean the borrower will be in deeper financial trouble and is likely to default down the road.
When I first started, I always asked borrowers what debt to be paid off.  If old debt interest rates were higher than LC rates, I would lend.  Otherwise, I wouldn't lend.  Of course, we don't have that luxury today.   Yes, I have had enough of LC and I am exiting LC slowly.
Title: Re: New Front Page Pie Graph?
Post by: rawraw on December 25, 2013, 09:26:57 AM
While your above statement would seem logical, many borrowers simply don't institute logical thinking in their decisions. To them, they may rather have one fixed monthly debt payment as opposed to many individual credit card payments, HELOC payments, etc. In other words, it's not that uncommon to see a borrower consolidating debt that's at a lower interest rate.
I'd rather invest in a note with a new, lower monthly payment than a higher payment than the borrower has had.  Since we don't have much info on their ability to pay, if they haven't missed a payment at the old level things look better for a lower than old level amount moving forward.

I do read descriptions, although they are rarely there.  I don't fund debt consolidations that tell they are consolidated debt which would be lower rates to this one.  I compare amount requested to revolving outstanding.
Title: Re: New Front Page Pie Graph?
Post by: Keltset on December 26, 2013, 12:04:20 PM
Something worth noting is that -sometimes- it is logical to refinance lower interest debt into a higher interest loan. I would not personally suggest it but sometimes you see situations where debt minimum payments can really add up and a consolidated loan frees up cashflow that may have been a problem for the borrower. This does not necessarily means they are going to dig a bigger hole, sometimes this can actually help to resolve a dedicated persons debt issues even if it does carry a net higher cost to the debtor.