Lend Academy Network Forum

Lending Club Discussion => Investors - LC => Topic started by: jpildis on November 06, 2014, 09:07:02 AM

Title: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: jpildis on November 06, 2014, 09:07:02 AM
Per their announcement on the site today, the following is happening ~ Dec 10th:

We are standardizing data fields to be consistent across the Lending Club platform. As a result, some date and credit attribute fields that are not available in certain sections of the site, such as the filters on the Browse Note page, will be removed from other areas of the site.
 
Removed Date Fields:
accept_d
exp_d
list_d
 
Removed Credit Attribute Fields:
acc_now_delinq
acc_open_past_24mths
bc_open_to_buy
percent_bc_gt_75
bc_util
delinq_amnt
mths_since_recent_inq
mths_since_recent_revol_delinq
mths_since_recent_bc
mort_acc
total_bal_ex_mort
total_bc_limit
total_il_high_credit_limit
num_rev_accts
mths_since_recent_bc_dlq
pub_rec_bankruptcies
num_accts_ever_120_pd
chargeoff_within_12_mths
tax_liens
num_sats
num_tl_op_past_12m
mo_sin_rcnt_tl
tot_hi_cred_lim             
tot_cur_bal
avg_cur_bal
num_bc_tl
num_actv_bc_tl
num_bc_sats
pct_tl_nvr_dlq
num_tl_90g_dpd_24m
num_tl_30dpd
num_tl_120dpd_2m
num_il_tl
mo_sin_old_il_acct
num_actv_rev_tl
mo_sin_old_rev_tl_op
mo_sin_rcnt_rev_tl_op
total_rev_hi_lim
num_rev_tl_bal_gt_0
num_op_rev_tl               
tot_coll_amt


Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: rawraw on November 06, 2014, 09:14:28 AM
The war with the ecosystem continues.  This is absurd.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: Ran on November 06, 2014, 09:15:39 AM
The war with the ecosystem continues.  This is absurd.

My understanding is that these attributes in API are gone as well.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: core on November 06, 2014, 09:28:38 AM
Nice.  This should discourage some of those pesky 3rd parties.  Which I assume is the "real" goal.

I cannot say that I am all that upset.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: Lovinglifestyle on November 06, 2014, 09:38:23 AM
Where, please? 
Looked all over--can't find it--please help?  It's probably right in front of my face somewhere.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: Lovinglifestyle on November 06, 2014, 09:41:58 AM
Shouldn't this announcement have been accompanied by some good news about added things to come?
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: rawraw on November 06, 2014, 10:36:20 AM
The war with the ecosystem continues.  This is absurd.

My understanding is that these attributes in API are gone as well.
My point exactly.  They are trying to force people to use the LC Auto Invest and LC website by reducing the incentives to do otherwise.  At the same time, limiting the ability for third party credit analysis to determine the "health" of loans by keeping the data for themselves.  This is a bad move IMO

How does Prosper data compare?  Maybe it's time to start having wandering eyes after a long relationship.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: Kombinator on November 06, 2014, 10:49:04 AM
This is bloody disturbing, even though most fields they are removing are pretty useless there are a few which are quite important...

osper has much better and extensive data, as well as robust API, so from that perspective Prosper wins.

Main problem there is that 90% of loans go to whole side, so you only get 1-2 decent loans a day.

They have some minor weird API issues, but overall a much better system.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: avid investor on November 06, 2014, 11:28:54 AM
I get leveling the playing field with the browser-based investor.  But you already have this data and are providing it through the API.  Why not just increase the browser-based filter options?
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: Lovinglifestyle on November 06, 2014, 11:31:14 AM
Per their announcement on the site today, the following is happening ~ Dec 10th:

We are standardizing data fields to be consistent across the Lending Club platform. As a result, some date and credit attribute fields that are not available in certain sections of the site, such as the filters on the Browse Note page, will be removed from other areas of the site.
 
Removed Date Fields:
accept_d
exp_d
list_d
 
Removed Credit Attribute Fields:
acc_now_delinq
acc_open_past_24mths
bc_open_to_buy
percent_bc_gt_75
bc_util
delinq_amnt
mths_since_recent_inq
mths_since_recent_revol_delinq
mths_since_recent_bc
mort_acc
total_bal_ex_mort
total_bc_limit
total_il_high_credit_limit
num_rev_accts
mths_since_recent_bc_dlq
pub_rec_bankruptcies
num_accts_ever_120_pd
chargeoff_within_12_mths
tax_liens
num_sats
num_tl_op_past_12m
mo_sin_rcnt_tl
tot_hi_cred_lim             
tot_cur_bal
avg_cur_bal
num_bc_tl
num_actv_bc_tl
num_bc_sats
pct_tl_nvr_dlq
num_tl_90g_dpd_24m
num_tl_30dpd
num_tl_120dpd_2m
num_il_tl
mo_sin_old_il_acct
num_actv_rev_tl
mo_sin_old_rev_tl_op
mo_sin_rcnt_rev_tl_op
total_rev_hi_lim
num_rev_tl_bal_gt_0
num_op_rev_tl               
tot_coll_amt


I remember seeing parts of this somewhere, but still cannot find this announcement on the site.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: kbenson99 on November 06, 2014, 11:40:09 AM
http://kb.lendingclub.com/siteupdates/articles/Site_Updates/Recent-and-upcoming-changes-to-the-downloadable-data-files-and-API-services/?l=en_US&fs=Search&pn=1 (http://kb.lendingclub.com/siteupdates/articles/Site_Updates/Recent-and-upcoming-changes-to-the-downloadable-data-files-and-API-services/?l=en_US&fs=Search&pn=1)
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: Kombinator on November 06, 2014, 11:43:44 AM
Thanks for the link, helpul. I thought they are getting rid of SOAP API altogether, why are they updating it?
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: Lovinglifestyle on November 06, 2014, 11:47:48 AM
Appreciate the link.  Thank you.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: kbenson99 on November 06, 2014, 11:49:22 AM
Because in the email notification LC sent on 10/16, it stated that the "legacy SOAP services will be supported through the end of this year".  So, with the credit data field update on ~ 12/10, the SOAP API still has about 3 weeks of life.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: Kombinator on November 06, 2014, 11:50:44 AM
OK, that makes sense then, we have been focused on fully migrating to REST API, but makes sense that they have to support legacy systems till official kill date.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: TonySaunders on November 06, 2014, 01:22:17 PM
When I look at the bigger picture I consider this to be a reasonable thing for LC to do.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: Kombinator on November 06, 2014, 01:25:34 PM
Can you explain how giving less data and choices to your customers even though the data is clearly available and useful a good thing to do in the long run?

One of the good things about the platforms has been their transparency and data sharing, if they take away half of the data sets there is now way that is good.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: TonySaunders on November 06, 2014, 01:38:09 PM
It may not be "good". But I think it's "reasonable".

This may be the best solution for keeping the playing field theoretically level. You can't reasonably expect them to undergo a large development effort on the website in order to offer 41 new ambiguously-useful and overwhelmingly-various filters for every investor. That plus any other number of complications-we-don't-know-about (e.g. time constraints) probably makes this move the best solution.

None of it need be permanent... they are quite able to piecemeal-add filters/fields for everyone equally as it is expedient to do so in the future.

LC has made keeping-it-fair moves that were to the advantage of small-investors-with-automation in the past, and I appreciate the continued effort regardless of whether it is a slight upon my practices.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: rawraw on November 06, 2014, 01:51:49 PM
It may not be "good". But I think it's "reasonable".

This may be the best solution for keeping the playing field theoretically level. You can't reasonably expect them to undergo a large development effort on the website in order to offer 41 new ambiguously-useful and overwhelmingly-various filters for every investor.
IMO They made it level by going in the opposite direction they should have. 
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: hoggy1 on November 06, 2014, 02:03:06 PM

 
Removed Date Fields:
accept_d
exp_d
list_d
 
Removed Credit Attribute Fields:
acc_now_delinq
acc_open_past_24mths

bc_open_to_buy
percent_bc_gt_75
bc_util
delinq_amnt
mths_since_recent_inq
mths_since_recent_revol_delinq
mths_since_recent_bc
mort_acc

total_bal_ex_mort
total_bc_limit
total_il_high_credit_limit
num_rev_accts
mths_since_recent_bc_dlq
pub_rec_bankruptcies
num_accts_ever_120_pd
chargeoff_within_12_mths
tax_liens
num_sats
num_tl_op_past_12m
mo_sin_rcnt_tl
tot_hi_cred_lim             
tot_cur_bal
avg_cur_bal
num_bc_tl
num_actv_bc_tl
num_bc_sats
pct_tl_nvr_dlq
num_tl_90g_dpd_24m
num_tl_30dpd
num_tl_120dpd_2m
num_il_tl
mo_sin_old_il_acct
num_actv_rev_tl
mo_sin_old_rev_tl_op
mo_sin_rcnt_rev_tl_op
total_rev_hi_lim
num_rev_tl_bal_gt_0
num_op_rev_tl               
tot_coll_amt[/i]

My scoring system uses all the highlighted fields. I think my little LC experiment just ended.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: TonySaunders on November 06, 2014, 02:12:59 PM
Now that I look at this list... I don't understand the motive for removing some of these. Regular users CAN see metrics like "Delinquent Amount". Why would they remove that from use by automation?

EDIT: Is there some part of the site that doesn't have this information available? Doesn't that seem like a pretty important and useful metric?

EDIT: Perhaps they will be adding new fields with the same data under a more consistent heading?

EDIT: Presumably, this means that they will be removing it from use by regular users as well. Otherwise it's a screen scraping game (again).
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: TonySaunders on November 06, 2014, 02:27:47 PM
I think this entire thread may have jumped into hysterical speculation.

Read the message carefully. (Link below.) It definitely says that all the data will still be available via the "download all" CSV file on the "My Notes" page. It does NOT specifically say that the data will not be available via the REST API. It only says that some areas of the site are changing.

I find the information WAAAAY too ambiguous for us to be assuming that it's getting ripped out of the API. They are clearly still fine with us having the data because you can still download it. It says that some format changes will be made in the API, but not that the API will definitely be limited.

http://kb.lendingclub.com/siteupdates/articles/Site_Updates/Recent-and-upcoming-changes-to-the-downloadable-data-files-and-API-services/?l=en_US&fs=Search&pn=1

EDIT: If the data is available in our downloadable note data and not in the API.. then it's like they are okay with us knowing about current delinquencies only AFTER we buy a note but not before. So is it a game of buying them to find out which ones suck, and then selling the ones you don't like?
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: GS on November 06, 2014, 04:25:54 PM
The way I read, it does say that the data files will be modified:

Quote
Upcoming Changes
As early as December 10, 2014 we will be making corresponding updates in the following places:

    The “Download All” file available on the Browse Notes page within your account
    The REST API Listed Loan service
    The SOAP API Browse Loans service

Then goes on to list what will be removed....

I think there is a better way to handle this.  Would it really be that difficult to add a "more credit data" link on each note's browse page, and provide these data points to all users?  I think even I could write that code.  It doesn't have to be filterable, just show it on a webpage.

I really think this is another bad decision on LC's part ... they've done some good things, but seems like too many bad things, recently. 



Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: AnilG on November 06, 2014, 04:43:57 PM
Agree with you. Leveling the field is just an excuse to reduce the amount of information available to lenders to make smart decisions. From credit modeling, note selection, and determining overall borrower quality on marketplace lending platform perspective, it is not a good move to reduce the number of available loan and borrower attributes.

Lending Club is removing almost half of the available loan attributes. This is going to benefit Prosper as they provide 500+ loan attributes for their listings compared to less than 100 that LC was providing.

The way I read, it does say that the data files will be modified:

Then goes on to list what will be removed....

I think there is a better way to handle this.  Would it really be that difficult to add a "more credit data" link on each note's browse page, and provide these data points to all users?  I think even I could write that code.

I really think this is another bad decision on LC's part ... they've done some good things, but seems like too many bad things, recently.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: hoggy1 on November 06, 2014, 05:19:38 PM
I hadn't bothered to open a Prosper account until now. LC just can't be trusted. The data has always been poor with lots of errors and inconsistencies. They decided to fix things;"Hey, I got an idea! Why don't we just remove all the data? That will stop their bitching."
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: rawraw on November 06, 2014, 07:20:59 PM
Has anyone emailed LC to get their response about this?  If not, I will tomorrow
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: TonySaunders on November 06, 2014, 07:33:25 PM
I hadn't bothered to open a Prosper account until now. LC just can't be trusted.

Prosper once turned off the ability to trade on the trading platform for the entire state of Washington with no warning at all for 3 months. My money went from somewhat liquid to totally frozen overnight. I haven't put a penny into Prosper since then.

They didn't even LET US KNOW it would happen. I'll never go back. Even if I quit LC, I'll never go back to Prosper.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: hoggy1 on November 06, 2014, 07:59:26 PM
You won't even be able top tell if a borrower has current delinquencies. Astonishing!
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: Thatguybil on November 06, 2014, 08:03:55 PM
This is nuts.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: Lovinglifestyle on November 06, 2014, 08:44:35 PM
I hadn't bothered to open a Prosper account until now. LC just can't be trusted.

Prosper once turned off the ability to trade on the trading platform for the entire state of Washington with no warning at all for 3 months. My money went from somewhat liquid to totally frozen overnight. I haven't put a penny into Prosper since then.

They didn't even LET US KNOW it would happen. I'll never go back. Even if I quit LC, I'll never go back to Prosper.

That's what I said too, just from hearing about Core's experiences.  I remember the Washington problem.  I didn't like it when they shut down their forum either. With so few loans,  wouldn't going back be a waste of time--or do people switching over go to higher loan amounts?
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: core on November 06, 2014, 09:25:17 PM
LC just can't be trusted.

I think that sums it up nicely.  Best 5 words spoken today.

All of this complaining (warranted or not) about the data being removed is missing the point:  Lending Club doesn't want people hammering their servers with hundreds requests and cherry picking the best notes.  They don't want 3rd parties essentially making money off data that LC cannot (or will not) itself present to investors.  And they certainly don't want thousands of phone calls from individual investors asking about why this-or-that is screwy with the data.

What they want is to sell the entire basket of notes 4 times a day with as little fuss and cost as possible.  That will happen whether data is there or not, so it's in their best interests not to provide it.  You take the notes that you are given and you better like them.  They don't need you except for the PR value.  You can take your bat & ball and go home but this is precisely what they want.

And does anyone really believe that some of the hand-picked institutions won't still be getting this same data?
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: JoeB on November 06, 2014, 09:28:00 PM
I think the fat lady has left the building.   :P
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: Fred on November 06, 2014, 11:33:11 PM
And they certainly don't want thousands of phone calls from individual investors asking about why this-or-that is screwy with the data.

+1.  This is also the most important reason for me not to open my programs to the public.

(https://forum.lendacademy.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FIkobLQb.png&hash=afb55e90a8652590dd16bb6a1100908b)
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: Fred93 on November 07, 2014, 03:22:18 AM
Situation is worse than LC's announcement.

Tonite I downloaded the three big historical loan data files, and all these fields are GONE NOW.  Not December 10th.  Now. 

File previously had 100 fields.  Now has 56.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: core on November 07, 2014, 03:51:37 AM
Tonite I downloaded the three big historical loan data files, and all these fields are GONE NOW.  Not December 10th.  Now. 

They are trying to prevent a stampede perhaps.  Grabbing the files was on my to-do list as well.  Rats.

P.S.  JoeB this is no time for Stephanie jokes.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: DanB on November 07, 2014, 05:46:20 AM
LC just can't be trusted.

I think that sums it up nicely.  Best 5 words spoken today.

All of this complaining (warranted or not) about the data being removed is missing the point:  Lending Club doesn't want people hammering their servers with hundreds requests and cherry picking the best notes.  They don't want 3rd parties essentially making money off data that LC cannot (or will not) itself present to investors. And they certainly don't want thousands of phone calls from individual investors asking about why this-or-that is screwy with the data.

What they want is to sell the entire basket of notes 4 times a day with as little fuss and cost as possible.  That will happen whether data is there or not, so it's in their best interests not to provide it. You take the notes that you are given and you better like them. They don't need you except for the PR value.  You can take your bat & ball and go home but this is precisely what they want.

And does anyone really believe that some of the hand-picked institutions won't still be getting this same data?

Core..............Well I'm not sure how wanting to sell their product "with as little fuss and cost as possible." is any different from most companies in the world, & I know that you're not one of those gullible people who actually believed that "transparency" was anything other than "marketing". 

So why would  they do things differently?  Or are you saying that when you're CEO of say, Hard Core Pictures Inc*., your staff would welcome lots of phone calls from some of your retail customers who will ask questions like............... why the dvd box or ad lists the movie as 89 minutes long, but it's really only 87 minutes? (They verified it using an atomic clock, not the dvd or streaming one, or so they say) Or why the actress on the boxcover appears in only 2 of the 5 scenes, whereas someone else is in 3 of the 5 ?  Or why the photo on some ad contains a pose that they can't precisely find in the movie? Or etc etc.

Or would you say all the right things about valuing your retail customers who believed in you & gave you your start blah blah blah,  but sometimes quietly wish that  they'd just take the movies you make & just shut up about it.............& wildly celebrate the day when you're selling to enough big distributors that you wouldn't need your retail customers anymore ? And what if you could then wave a wand & magically earn the same margin regardless of whether you sell to retail customers or in bulk to the big players?

Well, as we all know, in the p2p biz no magic wand is needed. That is the reality. So why do any of you express surprise or disappointment when inevitable & logical steps are taken considering the rise in volume?

PS  In case you doubt the ability of your future office staff to intelligently answer questions such as those posed above because you intend to hire them for looks & not brains (like I did), I would be happy to provide tried & trusted answers................for a small fee. :)

*Disclaimer.............This scenario is only meant to be illustrative & of course in no way implies that a harmonious & clearly pure soul like our Core would ever consider involvement in such a contentious & divisive business

Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: core on November 07, 2014, 06:13:37 AM
Yes Dan all businesses exist to make money and LendingClub is no different.  You are preaching to the choir.  They just need to be more honest about it so these types of "misunderstandings" don't continue to happen in the future, with investors threatening (hah!) to go elsewhere with their frownie faces.  Like LendingClub is supposed to care in the least.

Certainly, if I was the CEO of LC I'd start preventing retail investors from investing in new notes pronto... soon after the IPO.  Gentle encouragement would be a good start.  Remove access to data, ban the script kiddies, make the site as hard to use as possible, etc.  (Gee, I think they got a head start on these.)  Only later would it become necessary to forcefully block new investments.  Problem is there's still notes on the platform for 5 years.  To fix that, I'd start to have little "system errors" from time to time where I take 1% of the notes off the table.  Rinse and repeat.  Eventually all the undesireables are gone.  If I play my cards right I could even keep a nontrivial amount of those investors' balances in the form of 18% fees and other creative fees.  Sounds like they're getting a head start on that too.

Or why the photo on some ad contains a pose that they can't precisely find in the movie?

Now that you mention it, that happens to me all the damn time.  Not just occasionally, it seems like every darn movie.  Why do you guys do that to people?!?  Some kind of porn box conspiracy or inside joke or simply tradition?
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: avid investor on November 07, 2014, 07:24:56 AM
It may not be "good". But I think it's "reasonable".

This may be the best solution for keeping the playing field theoretically level. You can't reasonably expect them to undergo a large development effort on the website in order to offer 41 new ambiguously-useful and overwhelmingly-various filters for every investor.
IMO They made it level by going in the opposite direction they should have.
I couldn't agree more.  They should just open up more filtering options on the browser platform.

I also noticed that the list of 41 isn't actually correct.  It contains lots of underscore characters that aren't in the real element names in the JSON.  Thanks for that LC.  Since I don't map all of the fields (I don't really care how many pets the borrower has), I was trying to match up the list programmatically to those that I do map to our database.  Now I have to do the long method.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: avid investor on November 07, 2014, 07:38:28 AM
While the 41 fields may have been removed from the downloadable files, they are still in the REST API content for now, at least as of the 9 PM feeding last night.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: avid investor on November 07, 2014, 08:27:02 AM
Just an FYI... Other than the date fields, these were all fields that have been added fairly recently.  My filtering was on fields available from the original XML dataset.  As such, I won't lose anything here that I was ever really relying on.  I was capturing some of this info though, for future filtering considerations.  Sad to see it go. 
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: turing on November 07, 2014, 04:44:13 PM
Another bad sign for Lending Club.  Very easy solution that wouldn't have hurt other tools: add functionality to the browser instead of taking it away from two other parts of site (API and download)
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: hippo387 on November 08, 2014, 06:57:54 AM
Posted on the main site but will probably get more interesting responses here:

As I've mentioned in another context, most 3rd party sites--which make up the so-called "ecosystem"--are just derivatives on something LC created. As an average non-accredited retail investor, I view the ecosystem as mostly adding a layer of fees to provide services of questionable value (speed, extra filtering, etc) that in some cases attempts to advantage certain investors at the expense of the rest. My bet is that the vast majority will fail to outperform a simple filter or investment approach, which has been shown again and again in all types of markets.

I know this opinion will annoy many users, especially the active crowd on this site or those who profit from LC's product, but personally Iím not sure why LC owes derivative businesses anything. I'm for any move that helps LC ensure a level playing field for retail investors, and as Peter said this change mostly impacts very large investors (and those that service them). Is the negativity here really about transparency? Or is it just about money and the fear that a derivative player won't be able to grab a slice of the pie?

No offense intended and just one guy's opinion!
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: hoggy1 on November 08, 2014, 07:12:05 AM
I reported the following bug to LC soon after they added the traded notes file download

Quote
Here are the two files download one after the other, both sorted by loanid. Look at loan 647778 (highlighted). The TREND in the traded-notes file shows FLAT (as do all purchased notes in this file) but show UP in the notes-ext file. The FICO scores are correct in both and the trend is in fact UP, so the traded notes file is internally inconsistent. I provide the other file only for reference.

They fixed it! They have removed Trend from the traded notes file. I didn't need that kidney anyway. 
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: dontvote on November 09, 2014, 12:54:11 AM
I'm psyched. Those fields were stupid anyway.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: turing on November 10, 2014, 10:15:09 AM
Posted on the main site but will probably get more interesting responses here:

As I've mentioned in another context, most 3rd party sites--which make up the so-called "ecosystem"--are just derivatives on something LC created. As an average non-accredited retail investor, I view the ecosystem as mostly adding a layer of fees to provide services of questionable value (speed, extra filtering, etc) that in some cases attempts to advantage certain investors at the expense of the rest. My bet is that the vast majority will fail to outperform a simple filter or investment approach, which has been shown again and again in all types of markets.

I know this opinion will annoy many users, especially the active crowd on this site or those who profit from LC's product, but personally Iím not sure why LC owes derivative businesses anything. I'm for any move that helps LC ensure a level playing field for retail investors, and as Peter said this change mostly impacts very large investors (and those that service them). Is the negativity here really about transparency? Or is it just about money and the fear that a derivative player won't be able to grab a slice of the pie?

No offense intended and just one guy's opinion!

There is demand for those services only because Lending Club does not provide features that some users want.

For example, Nickel Steam Roller let's users slice and dice data that comes entirely from Lending Club or Prosper.  Lending Club doesn't provide any way to slice and dice it but there are people who want that ability.  So the market created it.

If Lending Club were to offer that directly on their site there would be no need for a 3rd party tool that does it (assuming it was done as well with as many features).

Instead of taking away features on their site to level the playing field, they should be adding features to the site to level the playing field.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: thezfunk on November 10, 2014, 11:19:40 AM
Posted on the main site but will probably get more interesting responses here:

As I've mentioned in another context, most 3rd party sites--which make up the so-called "ecosystem"--are just derivatives on something LC created. As an average non-accredited retail investor, I view the ecosystem as mostly adding a layer of fees to provide services of questionable value (speed, extra filtering, etc) that in some cases attempts to advantage certain investors at the expense of the rest. My bet is that the vast majority will fail to outperform a simple filter or investment approach, which has been shown again and again in all types of markets.

I know this opinion will annoy many users, especially the active crowd on this site or those who profit from LC's product, but personally Iím not sure why LC owes derivative businesses anything. I'm for any move that helps LC ensure a level playing field for retail investors, and as Peter said this change mostly impacts very large investors (and those that service them). Is the negativity here really about transparency? Or is it just about money and the fear that a derivative player won't be able to grab a slice of the pie?

No offense intended and just one guy's opinion!

There is demand for those services only because Lending Club does not provide features that some users want.

For example, Nickel Steam Roller let's users slice and dice data that comes entirely from Lending Club or Prosper.  Lending Club doesn't provide any way to slice and dice it but there are people who want that ability.  So the market created it.

If Lending Club were to offer that directly on their site there would be no need for a 3rd party tool that does it (assuming it was done as well with as many features).

Instead of taking away features on their site to level the playing field, they should be adding features to the site to level the playing field.

Exactly.  Supply and demand, right?  We, as (retail) investors (which are a lower subset of humanity, according to the platforms), demanded certain features.  Lending Club could have embraced our desires and provided all the desired information in ways that would have satisfied most people.  They didn't, for various reasons (some understandable, some not, more than likely).  So other people saw the opportunity to create a service that there was demand for.  The third party success should drive the point home even finer to Lending Club that they screwed up when it comes to satisfying the retail investors.  I don't know their reasoning for but that never has stopped me from speculating.

I still like how they (Lending Club) claim that there are no 'better' loans in a group; all 'C' or 'D' loans are the same, for example  That is completely and demonstrably, false.  Everyone on this forum can point to how bogus that assertion is with their filters and returns.  It indirectly proves that their underwriting process is not as good as it could be.  I don't think they like that.  I don't think they want to give people the data to show and prove their flaws.

What Lending Club has been doing the last month or two can only be construed as war on the motley crew of investors that frequent this forum.  Between changes like what is discussed in this thread and the requirements and restrictions put into place against the 3rd party service providers that have been discussed here as well (that thread went dead quiet for some reason with no public resolution that I have seen) and the sudden changes in policy with little to no notification amount to making this is as hard and difficult as possible for us with hopes of driving most of us away or forcing us into their box.  They want everyone to either be an institutional investor or a retail investor that is happy getting fed whatever LC Advisors wants to feed them.  They don't want crappy loans sitting unfilled on their platform.  They want them all filled as quickly as possible with as little fuss as possible.

It's just another aspect of the war on the middle class, in my opinion.  Here is a way for some smart and savvy investors to educate themselves and turn a profit.  Wall Street just can't abide by that.  These opportunities need to be stomped out and crushed before they spread.  I don't quite believe LC is evil to that extent but it seems to be a systemic problem.  Institutional money is here and they want all the crumbs.  To them, we are here to extract money from and to absorb their losses.  LC isn't exclusive here; Prosper and their what, 9% of loans going to retail(?) don't help either.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: Lovinglifestyle on November 10, 2014, 11:53:52 AM
Personally, I'm just about fed up.  Lending Club won't even let us "slice and dice" (turing) our own portfolios on their own website. 
Nor will they make it easy to see how much money was invested in a portfolio, where it went (notes sold?), how much is left, and where it is now (sort and access by status). 

No improvement in that problem over several years is nearly enough for me, without losing a couple of favorite data points (which I've been having to track down on third party sites), not being able to find notes I want, etc.  Meanwhile, my "cash drag" has grown to 11% and I might put it back where it came from.

Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: GS on November 10, 2014, 03:54:38 PM
Quote
What Lending Club has been doing the last month or two can only be construed as war on the motley crew of investors that frequent this forum.

While I want to agree, I've also seen LC do some very helpful things recently.

Good things (off the top of my head):

-It wasn't that long ago that you log in and find <100 notes on the platform, as they were all being gobbled up in a matter of minutes by the institutions.  Now, LC has apparently put governors in place to control the amounts of money and speed at which notes can be gobbled up, and we can usually find 1000+ notes on the platform.   

-While I'm an automatic investor through services like PLS and IR, I actually support that they have apparently put in a ~60 second delay before the computers can start buying (without screen scraping).  These two are clearly moves to keep the "little guy" in the game.

-They also eliminated the situation where you can lose money if the loan is paid off quickly.

On the bad side, it's well documented:

-Removing several fields for data modeling
-Taking some interest off the front end of the note to give to the originating bank
-Charging investors an 18% "fine" if the borrower is late
-Keep changing the website and API to "break" third parties
-Cutting off IRA members from Folio, with still no explanation as to why ...
-Etc ...


Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: Lovinglifestyle on November 10, 2014, 04:43:07 PM
Quote
What Lending Club has been doing the last month or two can only be construed as war on the motley crew of investors that frequent this forum.

While I want to agree, I've also seen LC do some very helpful things recently.

Good things (off the top of my head):

-It wasn't that long ago that you log in and find <100 notes on the platform, as they were all being gobbled up in a matter of minutes by the institutions.  Now, LC has apparently put governors in place to control the amounts of money and speed at which notes can be gobbled up, and we can usually find 1000+ notes on the platform.   

-While I'm an automatic investor through services like PLS and IR, I actually support that they have apparently put in a ~60 second delay before the computers can start buying (without screen scraping).  These two are clearly moves to keep the "little guy" in the game.


1.8% of the currently available notes are EFGs.  Not a lot of selection there for anybody wanting that risk range.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: GS on November 10, 2014, 05:04:21 PM
Yeah, that is true, but on Interest Radar, there are usually a few that pass my filters left on there.  Enough to keep me fully invested, anyway.  But I were putting in new money, it would take a long time to get fully invested at that pace. 
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: hoggy1 on November 10, 2014, 05:16:20 PM
1.8% of the currently available notes are EFGs.  Not a lot of selection there for anybody wanting that risk range.

I've been lamenting the same but just bought 3 DEFs (1 each) at 2:00 PST feeding. No idea why they come and go but they do seem to group together. I don't often buy Gs. Most score poorly in my scoring system.
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: Lovinglifestyle on November 10, 2014, 06:23:00 PM
I too just found some at 3:00 (2:00).  Couldn't believe there were 8 in my LC filter!  I picked 4 Es of the 8 total efg mix.  That was nice!
Title: Re: LC Eliminating 41 credit data fields from note download... goodbye modeling
Post by: PhilGD on June 10, 2015, 12:32:44 PM
Per their announcement on the site today, the following is happening ~ Dec 10th:

We are standardizing data fields to be consistent across the Lending Club platform. As a result, some date and credit attribute fields that are not available in certain sections of the site, such as the filters on the Browse Note page, will be removed from other areas of the site.
 
Removed Date Fields:
[...]
 
Removed Credit Attribute Fields:
[...]


I saw some good news today: It looks like the date for these changes has now been modified to "as early as August 15" whereas previously it was June 15th, and before that, December 10th.

http://kb.lendingclub.com/siteupdates/articles/Site_Updates/Recent-and-upcoming-changes-to-the-downloadable-data-files-and-API-services/?l=en_US&fs=Search&pn=1

I wonder if they're having trouble implementing changes on the back-end?

As far as I'm concerned this is very good news... I was worried I'd have to rebuild my model before the beginning of next week.