Lend Academy Network Forum

Lending Club Discussion => Investors - LC => Topic started by: hoggy1 on December 18, 2014, 05:58:18 PM

Title: 25+% triggers?
Post by: hoggy1 on December 18, 2014, 05:58:18 PM
This loan looks pretty good to me.
https://www.lendingclub.com/browse/loanDetail.action?loan_id=38098325

His revolving bal is a bit high and he has 7 mortgage accounts so he's dabling in RE but nothing strikes me that would cause someone with this much income to be charged 25% or for him to be willing to pay it.

It seems there is something in LCs underwriting process that triggers this risk assessment that can't be discerned from the data reported. Or is this the guy who will pay for 3 months and then be offered a new lower rate loan from LC screwing investors while collecting a second set of origination fees from him?
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: Lovinglifestyle on December 18, 2014, 06:40:36 PM
503K owed/ 573K limit with 7 mortgages sounds like a complicated life to me, with 2 yrs. in this job.  I passed because it made me think of bankruptcy.  That, and New Jersey with its weather related maintenance expenses could cause a grace payment and then I'd be selling the note at a discount.  Hope it works out fine for you!
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: brec on December 18, 2014, 08:52:43 PM
503K owed/ 573K limit with 7 mortgages sounds like a complicated life to me, with 2 yrs. in this job.  I passed because it made me think of bankruptcy.  That, and New Jersey with its weather related maintenance expenses could cause a grace payment and then I'd be selling the note at a discount.  Hope it works out fine for you!
Where are you seeing the 503K 573K and 7 mortgages numbers? I don't see them at hoggy1's linked page, i.e., at
https://www.lendingclub.com/browse/loanDetail.action?loan_id=38098325
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: Lovinglifestyle on December 18, 2014, 09:15:02 PM
I see it on PeerCube, from my filter page for all EFG loans.
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: brec on December 18, 2014, 09:23:46 PM
I see it on PeerCube, from my filter page for all EFG loans.
(Newbie still in state of maximum confusion...) Doesn't  PeerCube get its info from LC? Where could I have seen the info on LC? I'm thinking that something like "7 mortgages" would have to be in a free-form text field somewhere.
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: Fred on December 19, 2014, 12:46:26 AM
Doesn't  PeerCube get its info from LC? Where could I have seen the info on LC? I'm thinking that something like "7 mortgages" would have to be in a free-form text field somewhere.

PeerCube and others usually download the expanded version of loan data from this LC link:
https://resources.lendingclub.com/secure/primaryMarketNotes/browseNotes_1-RETAIL.csv
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: rawraw on December 19, 2014, 07:45:20 AM
I see it on PeerCube, from my filter page for all EFG loans.
(Newbie still in state of maximum confusion...) Doesn't  PeerCube get its info from LC? Where could I have seen the info on LC? I'm thinking that something like "7 mortgages" would have to be in a free-form text field somewhere.
Not all credit variables are displayed.  You have to go to the data download for the full list
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: brec on December 19, 2014, 09:19:31 AM
[Not all credit variables are displayed.  You have to go to the data download for the full list

Ah, not in a free-form text field:
mortAcc    integer    ...    Number of mortgage accounts.

Thanks!
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: Fred93 on December 19, 2014, 09:41:47 AM
By the way mortAcc or mort_acc (as it is known in different places) is one of the fields on the list to be removed "as early as December 10, 2014".
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: Lovinglifestyle on December 19, 2014, 02:27:30 PM
By the way mortAcc or mort_acc (as it is known in different places) is one of the fields on the list to be removed "as early as December 10, 2014".

Oh cheers.  Do you know anything about the "Total Current Debt" field's fate?  PeerCube's number is different from Interest Radar's "Current Balance (Excluding Mortgage) number.
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: Fred93 on December 19, 2014, 06:04:43 PM
By the way mortAcc or mort_acc (as it is known in different places) is one of the fields on the list to be removed "as early as December 10, 2014".

Oh cheers.  Do you know anything about the "Total Current Debt" field's fate?  PeerCube's number is different from Interest Radar's "Current Balance (Excluding Mortgage) number.

None of us really "know" anything about what LC is doing.  I believe the two numbers you describe may simply be different fields.  Because they are different fields, one would expect that they would contain different numbers.  There's a field named totCurBal and another named totalBalExMort.  As for what exactly either of these means, I can direct you to LC's data dictionary and API documentation, on their web site.  We all read, scratch our heads, and interpolate.  You are welcome to do same.  ::)

Regarding fields going away, LC posted a notice on their web site in early November.  It doesn't seem to be there any more  :o  .  They did NOT update the API documentation, even tho the change is supposedly imminent.  Many of us have stopped using the fields on this list, modified our software etc...

Here's the LC note...
Quote
We are standardizing data fields to be consistent across the Lending Club platform. As a result, some date and credit attribute fields that are not available in certain sections of the site, such as the filters on the Browse Note page, will be removed from other areas of the site.
 
Removed Date Fields:
accept_d
exp_d
list_d
 
Removed Credit Attribute Fields:
acc_now_delinq
acc_open_past_24mths
bc_open_to_buy
percent_bc_gt_75
bc_util
delinq_amnt
mths_since_recent_inq
mths_since_recent_revol_delinq
mths_since_recent_bc
mort_acc
total_bal_ex_mort
total_bc_limit
total_il_high_credit_limit
num_rev_accts
mths_since_recent_bc_dlq
pub_rec_bankruptcies
num_accts_ever_120_pd
chargeoff_within_12_mths
tax_liens
num_sats
num_tl_op_past_12m
mo_sin_rcnt_tl
tot_hi_cred_lim             
tot_cur_bal
avg_cur_bal
num_bc_tl
num_actv_bc_tl
num_bc_sats
pct_tl_nvr_dlq
num_tl_90g_dpd_24m
num_tl_30dpd
num_tl_120dpd_2m
num_il_tl
mo_sin_old_il_acct
num_actv_rev_tl
mo_sin_old_rev_tl_op
mo_sin_rcnt_rev_tl_op
total_rev_hi_lim
num_rev_tl_bal_gt_0
num_op_rev_tl               
tot_coll_amt
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: Lovinglifestyle on December 19, 2014, 08:11:32 PM
Thank you very much, Fred93.  I remember seeing that info.  I believe PeerCube changed their name of tot_cur_bal to Total Current Debt.  That is the field I've been hoping would not disappear, but I understand nearly everybody has updated already.  Am just guessing that PC uses the TCB for total debt, but maybe they come up with their total some other way.

I'm not very good at reading the .csv files.  Much too tedious to find the loan I want, so I rarely try.  Thank you for re-publishing the LC notice.
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: AnilG on December 19, 2014, 11:44:33 PM
On PeerCube, tot_cur_bal is listed as "Total current balance of all accounts "and total_bal_ex_mort is listed as "Total Credit Balance Excl Mortgage."

Regarding the removal of fields, LC have already removed those fields from the historical file but the removal for listings available has been delayed till next year.

Thank you very much, Fred93.  I remember seeing that info.  I believe PeerCube changed their name of tot_cur_bal to Total Current Debt.  That is the field I've been hoping would not disappear, but I understand nearly everybody has updated already.  Am just guessing that PC uses the TCB for total debt, but maybe they come up with their total some other way.

I'm not very good at reading the .csv files.  Much too tedious to find the loan I want, so I rarely try.  Thank you for re-publishing the LC notice.
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: Lovinglifestyle on December 20, 2014, 11:31:52 AM
Thanks, Anil.  I was thinking of that field's use in the custom filter's Total Current Balance/Annual Income field that I love.  When it goes away I will stop looking for new notes and will instead buy from Folio or begin transferring money out.
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: Fred93 on December 20, 2014, 06:53:38 PM
Thanks, Anil.  I was thinking of that field's use in the custom filter's Total Current Balance/Annual Income field that I love.  When it goes away I will stop looking for new notes and will instead buy from Folio or begin transferring money out.

Perhaps revol_bal would work for you? 
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: Lovinglifestyle on December 20, 2014, 08:23:34 PM
Thanks, Anil.  I was thinking of that field's use in the custom filter's Total Current Balance/Annual Income field that I love.  When it goes away I will stop looking for new notes and will instead buy from Folio or begin transferring money out.

Perhaps revol_bal would work for you?

No, it doesn't.  I'm looking for total debt from known sources, such as second mortgages and helocs.  Have no idea if gov't student loans get in any debt field, but revolving balance on Int. Radar is often lower than its credit balance excl. mortgage, which in turn is often lower than total current balance of all accounts on PeerCube.  Don't know what the other services do about reporting debt totals.
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: Fred93 on December 20, 2014, 10:00:19 PM
Perhaps revol_bal would work for you?

No, it doesn't.  I'm looking for total debt from known sources, such as second mortgages and helocs.

I understand.  The borrower's annual income has gotta pay all that stuff, so it makes sense to count it all.

Quote
Have no idea if gov't student loans get in any debt field, but revolving balance on Int. Radar is often lower than its credit balance excl. mortgage, which in turn is often lower than total current balance of all accounts on PeerCube.  Don't know what the other services do about reporting debt totals.

The only thing they can do is take some or all of the (very poorly defined) fields LC gives us, and hand them to you.  There is no other source.

Since you have looked at the debt related fields closely, I have a question for you.  How does DTI relate to the various debt balance fields?  I know this may be a little hard to figure, because the payments on various debts depend on their terms (rate, maturity, etc).  I have no idea what things are counted in DTI, and I've never tried to figure it out.


Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: Lovinglifestyle on December 21, 2014, 02:57:22 PM

Since you have looked at the debt related fields closely, I have a question for you.  How does DTI relate to the various debt balance fields?  I know this may be a little hard to figure, because the payments on various debts depend on their terms (rate, maturity, etc).  I have no idea what things are counted in DTI, and I've never tried to figure it out.

In the past, LC's DTI has not included mortgages nor the payment amount of the requested loan.  It has been based on borrowers' self-reported income, which may or may not have been verified.  So if the borrower is honest and accurate, the DTI relevant to revolving balance and installment payments should be accurate after the required minimum payments due according to the credit report are added up.  I asked once about what is included and received a good answer that I no longer seem to have.  Darn.  You have a good point about maturity.  As time goes on, old debts may drop off and new ones be added, so the DTI only helps at the beginning. 

A recent loan seemed to have a high income for a "server", so I wondered if tips were included.  LC says "under the table" income doesn't count.  But if tips are reported to the IRS, it should count, so I took it at face value.  For whatever reason, the loan was just removed. 
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: AnilG on December 21, 2014, 08:01:07 PM
Personally, I haven't found DTI to be a good indicator of loan defaults except when DTI is extremely low. In my analysis, Lending Club appears to take DTI into consideration when it assigns the interest rate. But I haven't found DTI to be a good predictor of defaults.

In the past, LC's DTI has not included mortgages nor the payment amount of the requested loan.  It has been based on borrowers' self-reported income, which may or may not have been verified.  So if the borrower is honest and accurate, the DTI relevant to revolving balance and installment payments should be accurate after the required minimum payments due according to the credit report are added up.  I asked once about what is included and received a good answer that I no longer seem to have.  Darn.  You have a good point about maturity.  As time goes on, old debts may drop off and new ones be added, so the DTI only helps at the beginning. 

A recent loan seemed to have a high income for a "server", so I wondered if tips were included.  LC says "under the table" income doesn't count.  But if tips are reported to the IRS, it should count, so I took it at face value.  For whatever reason, the loan was just removed.
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: rawraw on December 22, 2014, 06:52:38 AM
Back in the day when I played around with NSR, low DTI had higher defaults.  People often speculated it was because they weren't used to managing bills. 
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: Fred93 on December 27, 2014, 03:51:16 AM

Quote
Perhaps revol_bal would work for you?

No, it doesn't.  I'm looking for total debt from known sources, such as second mortgages and helocs.

I was just looking at peerform tonite, and they appear to provide the numbers you're looking for.  They now provide more than LC.
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: AnilG on December 27, 2014, 02:28:18 PM
Prosper also provides lot more data points than Lending Club. Prosper even separates out credit balance by real-estate, installment, etc.


Quote
Perhaps revol_bal would work for you?

No, it doesn't.  I'm looking for total debt from known sources, such as second mortgages and helocs.

I was just looking at peerform tonite, and they appear to provide the numbers you're looking for.  They now provide more than LC.
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: Lovinglifestyle on December 27, 2014, 05:31:05 PM

Quote
Perhaps revol_bal would work for you?


No, it doesn't.  I'm looking for total debt from known sources, such as second mortgages and helocs.

I was just looking at peerform tonite, and they appear to provide the numbers you're looking for.  They now provide more than LC.

Thanks.  Since you pointed this out I looked at their .csv of loans today and I see what you mean.  Looks like a lot of "privacy violation" excuses don't apply for them!  Some of those fields would add interest to the loan hunt, for sure.   :)
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: brec on December 28, 2014, 08:39:56 AM
... Or is this the guy who will pay for 3 months and then be offered a new lower rate loan from LC screwing investors while collecting a second set of origination fees from him?

Uhhhhhhh ... what?!  My first imagination is an email from LC saying, "Hey there! How'd you like to abandon your current obligation to us and start a new one at a lower rate?" But, nah, impossible. Or, maybe a paper mail -- the borrower's on a bunch of mailing lists -- with a general solicitation of new borrower customers; the recipient, already having an LC loan, applies again and is granted another loan, then defaults on the first one? Or: Uhhhhhhh ... what?!
Title: Re: 25+% triggers?
Post by: brec on December 28, 2014, 09:08:44 AM
... I was just looking at peerform tonite, and they appear to provide the numbers you're looking for.  They now provide more than LC.

I hadn't heard of Peerform before, so I looked at their site, and downloaded currently in-funding loans. There were 52 of them, which were 6% funded in aggregate. I notice that their investors must be accredited, which I assume has the industry meaning taken from the S.E.C.

Regardless of the attractiveness of investor features, I am wondering: how does a newer platform like this get any traction?