Lend Academy Network Forum

General Category => General P2P Lending Discussion => Topic started by: Fred93 on June 16, 2015, 01:05:51 AM

Title: Bondora?
Post by: Fred93 on June 16, 2015, 01:05:51 AM
Anyone have thoughts about Bondora?  http://www.bondora.com

They are in Estonia.  I've never invested in anything in Estonia before.  Seems like a pretty exotic location, although Estonia is part of the EU. 

Looks like they have good data disclosure, which is rare.

Edited to add: I do see there is considerable discussion of Bondora on the wiseclerk forum.
Title: Re: Bondora?
Post by: Tauri on June 17, 2015, 03:38:13 PM
Hi Fred93!

I am investing in Bondora (and also some other P2P lending sites in Estonia, there are 6 of them currently up and running). If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

For the records:
* I'm not working for Bondora
* I'm exotic estonian :)
* Actually we are not that exotic at all
Title: Re: Bondora?
Post by: rawraw on June 21, 2015, 11:18:27 AM
What currency is the payments in?  And is there any incentive to go to Estonia instead of LC/Prosper?
Title: Re: Bondora?
Post by: Tauri on June 22, 2015, 12:25:23 AM
Hi rawraw

Estonia is in the eurozone, which means that we are using euro as our currency (Estonia has been on euro since january 2011). While Bondora is operating currently in 4 (3) markets: Estonia (population of 1,3mio), Finland (5,5mio), Spain (46,6mio) and Slovakia (5,4mio - Slovakia is currently inactive due to less quality borrowers), all of those markets euro has been adopted so the only currency risk for foreign investors is EUR/USD when you are outside eurozone.

Bondora average return has been around 20% per year, this mainly because of Estonian people (currently 50-60% of the applications come from Estonia, Spain and Finland are almost equal with 20-30%) hasn't had too good access to money. So the interest rates are somewhat higher than you can expect from loans in US. For example average rate is 20-35%, depending on a credit group.
I myself believe that returns will fall in some near future (Bondora is negotiating with different institutional investors to take them on board). Also the whole credit model was redesinged in the beginning of this year giving more fairer options for both lenders and investors.
Should you be interested in Bondora? Yes, why not. But perhaps only with 5-10% of your portfolio. That would be my take on it.
Title: Re: Bondora?
Post by: wiseclerk_com on June 22, 2015, 12:53:31 PM
Fred and rawraw,

my coverage on Bondora on my P2P-Banking.com blog is here
http://www.p2p-banking.com/tag/bondora/

Every 3-4 months I do an update on how my portfolio is doing (I transfered 14,000 Euro in over time - at the moment I have about 20,600 Euro outstanding principal).


P.S.: I believe for US residents you have to have accredited investor status to participate. For European residents it is open to any retail investors.
Title: Re: Bondora?
Post by: hessinger on June 23, 2015, 12:22:25 PM
P.S.: I believe for US residents you have to have accredited investor status to participate. For European residents it is open to any retail investors.

I hate to ask this, but I will with the hope without being criticized by anyone else, but are they asking for an address? Some of may be multi-nationals :-) and I noticed the sign up form only asks for residency of.
Title: Re: Bondora?
Post by: wiseclerk_com on June 23, 2015, 02:24:33 PM
Yes, you'll have to submit documents
Title: Re: Bondora?
Post by: twigster on June 27, 2015, 04:26:48 AM
Hmmmm -- sounds interesting.  I just went to register on their web site to get more info.

Here is one interesting thing.  They ask for an IBAN account number on the personal details page.   I take it this means that one must have a EU denominated account in some Euro zone country (that uses the IBAN standard), correct?
Title: Re: Bondora?
Post by: Fred93 on June 27, 2015, 04:36:37 AM
They ask for an IBAN account number on the personal details page.   I take it this means that one must have a EU denominated account in some Euro zone country (that uses the IBAN standard), correct?

I think that's pretty much what it means.  I'm in the process of trying to get a bank account in an EU country, so I can try it out.
Title: Re: Bondora?
Post by: Kombinator on July 24, 2015, 10:08:40 AM
Fred, interesting, thanks for sharing, would love to hear how it goes for you.  BTW, on the subject of gettign a European EURO denominated account, once yu do, if you could share the hoops to jump through would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: Bondora?
Post by: PhilGD on July 24, 2015, 03:04:46 PM
Has anyone checked out their data disclosure? They provide so much info about their borrowers that we don't get from Lending Club (I'm not experienced with Prosper). They even tell you the age and marital status. I also like the way they break out borrowers' income. Their data seems to be much more granular than what we have over here.
Title: Re: Bondora?
Post by: Fred on July 25, 2015, 01:09:37 PM
Are there credit report agencies in Estonia, Finland, Spain?  I don't see them listed in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_bureau.
What are borrowers consequences for being late or in default?
Title: Re: Bondora?
Post by: rawraw on July 25, 2015, 09:19:22 PM
Has anyone checked out their data disclosure? They provide so much info about their borrowers that we don't get from Lending Club (I'm not experienced with Prosper). They even tell you the age and marital status. I also like the way they break out borrowers' income. Their data seems to be much more granular than what we have over here.
As Fred is alluding to above, there may be a reason for that.
Title: Re: Bondora?
Post by: wiseclerk_com on July 26, 2015, 12:22:49 PM
Are there credit report agencies in Estonia, Finland, Spain?  I don't see them listed in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_bureau.
What are borrowers consequences for being late or in default?

http://www.krediidiinfo.ee/index.php?m=3&lang=I

Quote
PD-s are estimated based on the internally developed scorecards that are enhanced with the external credit bureau data and scores (Krediidiinfo data for Estonia, Equifax scores for Spain, Asiakastieto Consumer Risk Indicator for Finland).
Source: https://www.bondora.com/en/invest/rating

Fred, note that it works differently then in the US. The Estonian register only shows past delinquencies (I think in the past 3 years). So a person with an Estonian top rating A1000 can just be a person that never took out any loan (or other liabilities). Still overall A1000 loans performed better than other credit grades for Bondora's Estonian loans.

Estonian loans are the most sought ones on Bondora. More than 90% of my current Bondora portfolio is Estonian loans.
Title: Re: Bondora?
Post by: Fred on July 26, 2015, 03:58:55 PM
Fred, note that it works differently then in the US. The Estonian register only shows past delinquencies (I think in the past 3 years). So a person with an Estonian top rating A1000 can just be a person that never took out any loan (or other liabilities). Still overall A1000 loans performed better than other credit grades for Bondora's Estonian loans.

Thanks, this is very helpful.

I am now intrigued.  Would you mind sharing how you setup a EU-based bank account?
Title: Re: Bondora?
Post by: wiseclerk_com on July 27, 2015, 04:49:52 AM

Thanks, this is very helpful.

I am now intrigued.  Would you mind sharing how you setup a EU-based bank account?

You are welcome.

I am German, residing in Germany, so setting up a German bank account required no magic   ;)
Title: Re: Bondora?
Post by: carlos on August 15, 2015, 10:09:15 AM
Hello, I just wanted to add to the topic that there are now two tools that you can use to evaluate potential ROI (or XIRR) on Bondora platform.

www.peerlan.com for primary market (loan originations)
www.bondpicking.com for secondary market (resale quotes)

Title: Re: Bondora?
Post by: hdsouza on February 05, 2018, 06:04:14 PM
Has anyone used the API functionality @ Bondora.
They do not appear to have an API Key or am I looking in the wrong place.
If we use  https://api.bondora.com/Application/Create (https://api.bondora.com/Application/Create), it asks for a website as part of the details. Is that the only way to go.. or is there an alternate approach?

Thanks
Title: Re: Bondora?
Post by: Joe6Luck on November 02, 2018, 07:59:01 PM
Bondora now provides an easy way to transfer funds from credit/debit card (issued by US bank in my case) into one’s account via so-called Visa and MasterCard Payment. I tried transferring 10 euro into and out of Bondora account and both finished in a few seconds with fair exchange rate.

Here is their introduction: https://www.bondora.com/blog/easy-ways-to-make-a-deposit-to-bondora/

Does anybody know if there is any potential risk with this process and if there is any upper limit to transfer funds from US to this European p2p lending service?
Title: Re: Bondora?
Post by: Fred93 on November 02, 2018, 10:57:03 PM
Bondora now provides an easy way to transfer funds from credit/debit card (issued by US bank in my case) into one’s account via so-called Visa and MasterCard Payment. ...

Does anybody know if there is any potential risk with this process and if there is any upper limit to transfer funds from US to this European p2p lending service?

I was not able to find any explanation of the credit card fees that you are charged for this kind of transfer.  Because it is via credit card, I am sure there are big fees.  How much was added on for a fee when you did your transfer?  2%?  5%?
Title: Re: Bondora?
Post by: Joe6Luck on November 03, 2018, 12:39:30 AM
Bondora now provides an easy way to transfer funds from credit/debit card (issued by US bank in my case) into one’s account via so-called Visa and MasterCard Payment. ...

Does anybody know if there is any potential risk with this process and if there is any upper limit to transfer funds from US to this European p2p lending service?

I was not able to find any explanation of the credit card fees that you are charged for this kind of transfer.  Because it is via credit card, I am sure there are big fees.  How much was added on for a fee when you did your transfer?  2%?  5%?

Good question. I was charged for 5% Cash Advance Fee when I initially used a credit card. I tried again and used a debit card instead  - no extra charge so far.

UPDATE:Just found a 3% foreign transaction fee in my debt card. So, definitely check any cash advance fee and/or foreign transaction fee with your bank. There are a couple of banks that offer debt card without such fees, though. Just check.