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Messages - Dave101

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Even doing no scraping,  I lose most of the notes I bid on.  Somebody gets to 'em before I do.  Perhaps I simply have many competitors and its all fair.  I don't know.  However, if I delay even a few seconds, I believe my results will be much worse.  Not impossible, but I think still impractical.

I suspected that LC might offer institutional access earlier than we get to see notes on the market. Today it occurred to me that there's an easy way to test this. I put up a note for sale, a great seasoned note with a 5% discount that any reasonable algorithm would snatch up, and I timed it to see how long it would take to sell.

A little over 3 1/2 minutes later it appeared in the API, and was snatched up-- by my own process on another account. I now think that there are just several of us with automated processes doing purchasing, and sometimes someone else gets to the note first. But as you've said, with the lack of liquidity in this market, is it worth it to try and further optimize the process?

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Foliofn - LC / Re: Buy notes on the secondary market with API
« on: January 14, 2018, 10:56:53 AM »
That would seem to be the case, but notes are definitely available to buy (if you know the note ID and price) the instant they're posted. I've done back to back sell<->buy API calls between two different accounts to test. Someone is buying the great notes-- current never late notes with strong upward FICO ratings that are discounted 3% or more-- before they ever hit the listings.

1) Do you know if the buy API calls in your back to back scenario suffer the same 30% to 50% failure rate as discussed earlier in this thread? I've been thinking with my tin foil hat on that the buy failures may be purposeful. Back to back sell-buy transactions could permit users to move notes between accounts at arbitrary non-market prices, perhaps greatly discounted. No other buyers even see the notes. However, if half the buys fail then those greatly discounted listed notes become exposed to other market participants and that makes the transfer between accounts at non-market discounted prices unworkable. Of course if one could re-try the buy quickly enough until success or cancel the sell on buy failure (if the expanded API permits this) then the transfer at non-market price could possibly be accomplished. Anyway, real tin foil hat stuff.

2) If you are an LC third party provider or any entity with lots of user accounts / credentials you're probably going to get the listings first. Just set up say 60 individual threads, each to initiate a download once a minute and staggered by one second starting intervals (LC's minimum access interval). If you've gone to that much trouble you will certainly have figured out the LC physical access point with the earliest release time and lowest latency. Each thread extracts newly listed notes and throws them into a single common queue for evaluation and possible purchase. Or something like that ... Doesn't seem very hard to do or even very expensive; you just need lots of accounts to use for the download threads.

1) None of the notes I've tested have ended up being bought by others. They've either been canceled for payment processing, or purchased. See Fred's response in the other thread about his research on why this happens so often.

2) I've considered that. Very rarely I'll be able to snag a single note in a batch that was listed at the same time, while the others are snatched up by others. You could be right, and in this case milliseconds matter.

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The marketplace is simply designed so that about 1 out of 5 buy transactions will fail.

This is great work, thank you.

Since we can't get the due date for a note until it's listed for sale and we've already bought it... there's no way to programatically avoid this window, is there?

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Foliofn - LC / Re: Buy notes on the secondary market with API
« on: January 13, 2018, 02:32:21 AM »
My guess is that the sell orders get time tagged when they're entered into one database and then there's a batch process that runs maybe every 5 minutes or so that moves them to another database where we can see them, and they used the creation time tag when evaluating "updated since".

That would seem to be the case, but notes are definitely available to buy (if you know the note ID and price) the instant they're posted. I've done back to back sell<->buy API calls between two different accounts to test. Someone is buying the great notes-- current never late notes with strong upward FICO ratings that are discounted 3% or more-- before they ever hit the listings.

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Foliofn - LC / Re: Buy notes on the secondary market with API
« on: January 12, 2018, 07:55:07 PM »
Appreciate the response, but that was not my question. I was not looking at "updated since".
 I was looking for query based on credit scrore, ask price, ytm.. all the options that they already have on the buy notes site to filter notes.  Any experience in combining these options with the API URL?

There's nothing in the doc I have about any other query parameters. I just apply my own filter to the results I get back.

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Foliofn - LC / Re: Buy notes on the secondary market with API
« on: January 12, 2018, 07:15:31 PM »
Thanks Fred. That is great info.
I have already reached out to LC investor support. I finally pointed them to what you mentioned as far as an API for the specific usage, and they did provide the API.

Although the only query parameters they have with the API is "updatedSince". I was expecting they would have queries based on credit score and several other filters. Did you have the same experience?

The Word doc I received has the same info. It's broken, though. Notes don't appear in the listings until they're 4-6 minutes old, so I use an updatedSince=10 to try to catch them all. Even then, some notes are already unavailable as soon as they appear, and they're always the best ones. My guess is that institutional investors have first dibs.

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Since I started tracking I've bought 519 notes, 175 of which are not presently in my account. A few are in pending and a few are sold, but I doubt those add up to 175. Still not close to 50%.

I'll re-tool my process so I can get an exact number and check back in in a couple of days.

Incidentally... any idea why it takes notes 4-6 minutes to be visible in the API listing, after which time several are not available? It seems to coincide with how often the downloadable CSV file is updated. Screen scraping doesn't seem to be much better. I know notes sold are available for purchase instantly, since I've tested it across accounts.

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