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Messages - graceful

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Investors - P / Re: Closing down a Prosper IRA: issues, tips and traps
« on: March 20, 2017, 02:08:59 PM »
I haven't heard back from Prosper yet, but yes, the amounts are small. I'm not going to worry about it, just wait for Prosper to figure out how they want to handle this. They know I can accept payout (I'm over 59.5) and they may also revert the stray funds with a bookkeeping adjustment. It is not enough money to fret over.

But others can avoid it by simply knowing they should wait a bit after hitting zero to close your IRA trustee account.

Investors - P / Closing down a Prosper IRA: issues, tips and traps
« on: March 13, 2017, 10:23:01 AM »
I planned to close my IRA Prosper accounts and had been transferring funds out to my Fidelity accounts everytime $10,000 in cash accrued. When the shut down of FolioN was announced. I fast-tracked my shutdown by selling everything on FolioN in the week remaining.

Each account was already down to about $10,000.00 when I launched the sales on FolioN.

The fees for annual maintenance were my initial target -- selling notes in a single calendar year and avoiding the Prosper annual fee once I got below the $10,000 minimum. But I discovered that the larger fees (by 3x) are the account closing fees at Equity Institutional. I arranged to pay these fees on a credit card, so the maximum tax-sheltered amount could rollover to my Fidelity IRA. You must set up the credit card payment before issuing the order to close the account.

Stray notes are a problem. Several notes went late in the week I was selling off, and then came current again, but too late to get sold. And a couple of late notes were in collection, which can take months to wind down. My shutdown started last October, and 5 months later is complete, sort of (see below). As soon as the accounts went to zero, Equity Institutional took the last bit of cash from Prosper and then sent it to Fidelity.

HOWEVER, now both accounts are showing a balance again. There must be some bookkeeping lag at Prosper. In my case, my EI account is now closed, so I don't have a way to move these stray amounts out. Since these are IRA accounts, this might be a problem for the IRS. I'm going to contact Prosper and see what they suggest. A wait of an extra few months would have solved this, if I'd had any idea it was possible.

Prosper told me last December that they plan to have another way to sell notes, but don't yet have anything definite. 

Investors - P / Re: massive number of loans charged off today
« on: October 09, 2015, 08:03:33 PM »
I just got a response from Prosper. The emails reflect the entire charge off history from 2013 and 2014. They are investigating why the messages were resent today. Whew!

Glad these aren't new charge offs! Hope they fix the glitch.

Investors - P / massive number of loans charged off today
« on: October 09, 2015, 06:35:01 PM »
I just got a series of emails with pretty large charge offs for many loans.

The charge off amounts are larger than most I've ever experienced, and it is a massive dump in number.

Anyone else seeing something similar?

Investors - P / Principal Adjustment
« on: July 29, 2014, 05:06:42 PM »
There was one other query about this on an investor's statement in Dec of 2012, with no answer. This month, every account has a deduction for Principal Adjustment.

Anyone know what this is for?

Investors - P / Re: Prosper IRA Fees
« on: April 10, 2014, 12:29:41 AM »
Equity Institutional charges $75 per withdrawal, so I'm pooling cash and withdrawing in $10,000 chunks to spread the fee over a bigger bite. Prosper  has covered my annual fee from Equity Institutional. At some point I may go below some minimum to be eligible for Prosper to cover my annual fee, but it has not happened yet.

Investors - P / Re: Prosper Folio Sales and Taxes
« on: February 25, 2014, 08:30:13 PM »
I was happy to get an email this year. In prior years, we just kept checking until the forms were posted.

No problem getting in, so I'm sorry anyone else couldn't get it. I didn't use the link in the email, just went to and logged in. I avoid clicking on links in email.

I loved hearing about Reflective Rupee and his strategies. Thanks!

The latest Equity Institutional liquidation of my Prosper IRA account took 46 days. This is a big improvement over the 70 day standard I'd complained about.

Here's hoping the skids are now greased and the rest of my transfers (and all of yours) will go as promptly.

Investors - LC / Re: Folio and IRAs
« on: January 04, 2014, 01:19:06 PM »
Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Someone could say they relied on LC, but if that doesn't fly, you'll be open to some pretty serious consequences. I reserve the defense of having relied on someone else only for a desperation defense. Not generally a good policy to say, "I did it anyway because they let me." Of course, I try to minimize my exposure to lawyers, the IRS and financial expenses, so I may be too conservative for others who like to live on the wild side.


Thanks Rocco!

Good idea, but my experience with Equity Institutional (formerly Sterling) hasn't been confidence inducing. They are enjoying holding onto my funds way too long already, so maybe that is part of their strategy. Or maybe I'm spoiled by the instant access I have now with the internet. Years ago we did all of this by mail, and every move took weeks instead of seconds.

Outside Prosper, I made 25% in 2012, and 28% in 2013. I hope to make 12% in 2014, but would use 9% for this calculation as lost opportunity cost.
Every 70 - 90 days, each account is throwing $10,000 to $13,000 cash.
Each transfer out costs $75 and takes about 70 days. I hope this will become 45- 60 days, but I've been working on this for a year and it is not improving much.

I don't see what the formula should be to tell me an optimized dollar amount or length of time for withdrawals. But it would be obvious to some of you better at this than I.


Confirmed. At this time, IRA accounts at Prosper (as well as Lending Club) cannot use FolioN to liquidate notes. There may well be a few accounts that slipped by and find themselves able to sell notes in an IRA account on Folio, but that isn't the norm, nor current policy.

If you have such an account, my concern would be an IRS review (which can happen anytime between now and complete liquidation i.e. your death) that deems FolioN sales as having non-trustees touching IRA monies, which triggers the taxes and penalties. Years ago my CPA warned me to keep EVERYTHING on my IRA accounts because these accounts can be reviewed much longer than most tax related documents. Therefore, I'm prone to some extra care so I don't have some junior auditor finding some lack that disallows a big wad of cash and then assesses back taxes and penalties when I'm way more old and grey.

Things are always changing. This is a new industry. I'm hoping that something will happen to give us extra liquidity on the back end. In the meantime, I just pool cash and move it every few months, which is what I'd planned when I first opened these accounts.

But I sure would like to know how to construct an equation for the most cash effective $ amount vs. time sitting idle.



I'll ask at Prosper and hope to hear different news tomorrow. But the last time I asked, there was an IRS issue about whether FolioN can be considered a valid IRA trustee by the IRS. I'm not interested in triggering a taxable event and penalties.

I tried to sell a note from one of the Prosper IRA accounts just now, and got the same NOGO page as last year. I also saw that this discussion was going on a few months ago for LC investors and no resolution has happened there except that more warnings about NOT using FolioN are on the LC website.

Back when I know more. In the meantime, has anyone run some calculations on the most cost effective exit strategy (assuming we can't sell on FolioN)?


I'm liquidating my Prosper IRAs and since I can't sell the notes on Folio, I let cash build up and then withdraw in $10k amounts.

Equity Institutional posted their fees (might be new fees, I didn't pay much attention because Prosper was covering the fees.) and am thinking some of you may have suggestions about how best to manage a withdrawal program to minimize fees.

Minimum annual fee is $250.00 or .0015 of the total if over $170k.
Each withdrawal costs $75.00 (partial termination fee).
There is also an account termination fee of $200.00.

I can't do anything about the annual fee. Just have to deal with it if Prosper stops paying it. So I think the only thing I can affect is the withdrawal fee. It takes about 3 months for $10,000.00 to accumulate in cash, and I've been withdrawing at that point. The actual transfer takes about 70 days.

I expect to make no more than 12% in 2014 on the rest of my portfolio, and my loans at Prosper are all high yield (over 19%), so it's not a disaster that I'm forced to let them ride and pay me interest. (The disaster is that I had such a fabulous run-up in 2013, and couldn't move this money to the stock market for that rally, and it gives me heartburn to leave cash idle for 4-5 months with no yield at all.)

Can I do better?

I spent about 45 days getting the first withdrawal transferred from Prosper to Equity Institutional and out to Fidelity. Now I'm at 60 days for the second withdrawal and no sign of when my funds will be moved to Fidelity.

Is anyone else having trouble moving cash through Equity Institutional? I get email correspondence every once in awhile, but nothing happens.


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