Author Topic: "Double-Down" on late payments???  (Read 20571 times)

yojoakak

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Re: "Double-Down" on late payments???
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2013, 08:35:34 PM »
What do you mean by this?  To my knowledge there isn't an ACH instruction that says "Give me all the money in the guy's account, not to exceed $550.00" etc.  Maybe they do something nasty like blast out multiple debits trying to capture whatever they can.

Some people have hypothesized that LC will initiate 2 (or more) ACH's on payment day which all together add up to a single payment.

How else to explain, for example, the 3 cent payments you sometimes see with no documented history of contact between LC and the borrower to set that up?

core

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Re: "Double-Down" on late payments???
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2013, 08:54:01 PM »
or did LC attempt a sum of three times normal payment but only an amount sufficient to cover a regular payment was present in the account.

Then the entire thing would bounce.  You don't get to take whatever is present.

Randawl

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Re: "Double-Down" on late payments???
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2013, 10:54:42 PM »
Then the entire thing would bounce.  You don't get to take whatever is present.

Good point.

Perhaps multiple debit attempts then?  I wonder what else would explain all the notes with random small payments.   I doubt there was borrower and LC contact prior to those debits that just happened to go undocumented in the log, simply because of the high number of times I've seen it happen.

Some people have hypothesized that LC will initiate 2 (or more) ACH's on payment day which all together add up to a single payment.

How else to explain, for example, the 3 cent payments you sometimes see with no documented history of contact between LC and the borrower to set that up?

Lovinglifestyle

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Re: "Double-Down" on late payments???
« Reply #48 on: September 09, 2013, 11:08:47 PM »
I wonder if the small amounts, like .02, could be LC logging in a new bank account for future payments.  That has happened to me before, but it was explained beforehand and the test run was credited back.  Don't recall what institution did it.

DanB

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Re: "Double-Down" on late payments???
« Reply #49 on: September 09, 2013, 11:27:29 PM »
I wonder if the small amounts, like .02, could be LC logging in a new bank account for future payments.  That has happened to me before, but it was explained beforehand and the test run was credited back.  Don't recall what institution did it.


Of course there are really no 2 & 3 cent payments being made, as we all realize.

Also, while it is rarely mentioned, it may be of interest to note that though ACH payments are the way in which almost all payments are made...............they are not the only way in which payments are made. 

core

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Re: "Double-Down" on late payments???
« Reply #50 on: September 09, 2013, 11:50:18 PM »
Of course there are really no 2 & 3 cent payments being made, as we all realize.

That's just your portion of the loan fraction though.  Has anyone multiplied these out to see if the real payment added up to a nice round number?

DanB

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Re: "Double-Down" on late payments???
« Reply #51 on: September 10, 2013, 12:16:07 AM »
Of course there are really no 2 & 3 cent payments being made, as we all realize.

That's just your portion of the loan fraction though.  Has anyone multiplied these out to see if the real payment added up to a nice round number?


I'm not sure that helps. Remember that the 2 & 3 cents that are noted in each of our accounts are "rounded" numbers to begin with. So multiplying it out would likely not result in something accurate, since there's no way for us to know whether a 2 cent notation is really 2 cents or 2.4 cents. A $30k loan, for example, could be up to twelve hundred $25 loan fractions.

rawraw

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Re: "Double-Down" on late payments???
« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2013, 06:20:25 AM »
Of course there are really no 2 & 3 cent payments being made, as we all realize.

That's just your portion of the loan fraction though.  Has anyone multiplied these out to see if the real payment added up to a nice round number?


I'm not sure that helps. Remember that the 2 & 3 cents that are noted in each of our accounts are "rounded" numbers to begin with. So multiplying it out would likely not result in something accurate, since there's no way for us to know whether a 2 cent notation is really 2 cents or 2.4 cents. A $30k loan, for example, could be up to twelve hundred $25 loan fractions.
Or 1.5 cents :)   Hasn't anyone here had a LC loan?

yojoakak

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Re: "Double-Down" on late payments???
« Reply #53 on: September 10, 2013, 10:17:36 AM »
I'm not sure that helps. Remember that the 2 & 3 cents that are noted in each of our accounts are "rounded" numbers to begin with....

Funny you should mention that because as it turns out the underpayments are the only payments in our accounts that AREN'T rounded - at least if you believe the tooltips on the Payment History table (hover your mouse over the numbers). Compare:





New Jersey Guy

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Re: "Double-Down" on late payments???
« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2013, 10:51:18 AM »
yojoakak, that note you have shown above.
Is there any customer contact shown in the collection log?

See, this is what has really had me scratching my head over the past 3 weeks or so.

If there is no borrower contact then.....
..... how did they come up with the $.14 payment?
..... Who authorized the $2.11 double payment?

My mystery is also with notes going into "Grace Period".
Last week, I had one folder where six (6) spotless notes went into "Grace".
ALL the notes showed a partial payment of a few cents.

This really surprised me because these were notes over 2 years old and never had a problem in the past.  Now all of a sudden I have six going bad?

Well, since this was a conservative folder, I listed all 6 for sale on Folio.  Within a week, 5 of the notes cancelled and now show as "Current".

When I looked at each note, the "Partial" payment changed to "Full Payment".  There was absolutely no indication of a partial payment.  There were no log entries or borrower contacts.  The notes still remain "Spotless".
Return over deposits:   66.82%
IRR:   86.54%
As of April 30, 2014

DanB

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Re: "Double-Down" on late payments???
« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2013, 11:15:12 AM »
A member who stated that he had worked in collections for many years posted a lengthy discussion of that industry & its practices some 9 or so months ago right here in the forum. I'm assuming that most of you either didn't read it, don't remember it &/or just didn't believe him.

I make this assumption based on the incredible belief & trust that most of seem to you continue to have on the accuracy, timeliness etc. of the log,.................  despite assertions made in his discussion that I would have thought, at the very least serve to raise serious questions as to those beliefs.   

Chuck

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Re: "Double-Down" on late payments???
« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2013, 11:35:16 AM »
DanB-  Please kindly do share if you're able to locate the older post re: collection practices - sounds really interesting.   I'm relatively new to this forum - I tried some searches - but didn't find exactly what you're referring to.  I was able to find Peter's posting on the topic: http://www.lendacademy.com/the-collection-practices-at-lending-club/, but it sounds like you're possibly referring to something else.  Thanks so much, Chuck

yojoakak

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Re: "Double-Down" on late payments???
« Reply #57 on: September 10, 2013, 12:39:35 PM »
yojoakak, that note you have shown above.
Is there any customer contact shown in the collection log?

See, this is what has really had me scratching my head over the past 3 weeks or so.

If there is no borrower contact then.....
..... how did they come up with the $.14 payment?
..... Who authorized the $2.11 double payment?

Account Activity confirms the  payment took place on 8/15:

08/15/13   Lender Service Fee   Service Fee, Loan 711367      $0.01
08/15/13   PAYMENT   PAYMENT, Loan 711367   $0.14

Collection Log shows no investor contact until 8/20, 5 days after the underpayment:

8/29/13 (Thursday)   Notified borrower of failed payment (e-mail)
8/29/13 (Thursday)   Seeking to locate borrower using alternative means (skip trace)
8/29/13 (Thursday)   Attempted to contact borrower (left voicemail)
8/20/13 (Tuesday)   PAYMENT Failed
8/20/13 (Tuesday)   Notified borrower of failed payment (e-mail)
8/20/13 (Tuesday)   Attempted to contact borrower (left voicemail)

I believe the $2.11 double payment is an illusion.

https://www.lendingclub.com/account/loanPerf.action?loan_id=711367&order_id=2810539&note_id=4203982

New Jersey Guy

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Re: "Double-Down" on late payments???
« Reply #58 on: September 10, 2013, 12:54:11 PM »
8/20/13 (Tuesday)     Notified borrower of failed payment (e-mail)
8/20/13 (Tuesday)     Attempted to contact borrower (left voicemail)

No, no, no!
See, this is what my original question was when I started this thread!
NEITHER of these are what I consider "Customer Contact".
These are nothing more than canned responses when a payment fails.

"Borrower contacted Lending Club."
"Lending Club contacted Borrower"
"Borrower agreed to pay"
"Negotiating Payment Plan"
"Borrower agreed on Payment Plan"

These are notations that indicate to me that there was a physical conversation between the borrower and Lending Club.  When I see any of those, Okay!  Now I know the changes in payment (and probably the "Partial Payment") were agreed upon.

Yea, it could be correct in assuming the logs aren't being updated correctly.  However, over the past 3 weeks, situations like this are the norm, not the exception. 

So, it's right back to my first post:

"It's DOUBLE the normal payment.  Yet, there has been no borrower contact to justify it.

This is not an isolated case.  Many of the late loans I've looked at are "Double-Down" with absolutely no (documented) borrower contact (besides the usual email sent when a payment is missed). "
Return over deposits:   66.82%
IRR:   86.54%
As of April 30, 2014

thezinfan

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Re: "Double-Down" on late payments???
« Reply #59 on: September 12, 2013, 03:51:20 PM »
FYI, I noticed on one of my loans (didn't have a payment plan attached to it) that was late had the double payment come through. That's cool!