Author Topic: UPDATE: Is even the API too "Slow"? Many Loans are Gone Before Caught by the API  (Read 12228 times)

viking

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I don't want to weigh in too heavily here, but if I can just make the larger point that folks forget that all of the LC universe seems focused on the very smallest fraction of LC notes that are available.  I see that in 2013, there have been 66,027 loans that LC has issued: assuming by "good notes" people mean E-G 400+, the number issued is 1,302.  Less than 2%.  Filters more restrictive than IR01 alone will yield even less. 

I really think we all should take Peter's post to heart and re-evaluate our expectations.  Unless users of other auto-invest services would like to weigh in, I think it's pretty unreasonable to target the same 2% of notes everybody else wants and be surprised to be shut out of them.  We may need to open some filters up...look at higher rated notes.  Maybe a B note won't kill us (that is, you'll still get better yield than a lot of debt instruments available).  Expanding the "good note" universe to C and D notes expands the number of issued notes by a factor of 10.
Well, more than 50% of all E-G notes, in this example, were picked up in less than one minute. I expect that only a small fraction of those were 400+ notes. Including A-D notes may, of course, increase the absolute number of available notes.

core

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We may need to open some filters up...look at higher rated notes.  Maybe a B note won't kill us (that is, you'll still get better yield than a lot of debt instruments available).

You may be right about that, opening up some filters.  But instead of buying a B note, wouldn't it be better to buy that E note that you really wanted... on Folio?   I am seriously not understanding why people are willing to take a 5-10% decrease in interest rate before buying Folio notes with an on-time payment or two already on them, at the rate the investor wanted, and possibly even at a small discount.  Is it just because the 3rd party sites don't have enough support for Folio at this time? 

I am honestly not understanding.   If there were no notes on Folio that precisely matched what everyone seems to want then I'd understand.  But there are seriously tons of them.

thezfunk

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We may need to open some filters up...look at higher rated notes.  Maybe a B note won't kill us (that is, you'll still get better yield than a lot of debt instruments available).

You may be right about that, opening up some filters.  But instead of buying a B note, wouldn't it be better to buy that E note that you really wanted... on Folio?   I am seriously not understanding why people are willing to take a 5-10% decrease in interest rate before buying Folio notes with an on-time payment or two already on them, at the rate the investor wanted, and possibly even at a small discount.  Is it just because the 3rd party sites don't have enough support for Folio at this time? 

I am honestly not understanding.   If there were no notes on Folio that precisely matched what everyone seems to want then I'd understand.  But there are seriously tons of them.

I have thought about this too.  I thought about getting these favorable notes and letting them 'season' for a payment or two and then dumping them immediately on the secondary market.  Just rotate them out as fast as i can.  I hold the notes as little as possible and maybe not make my 22% but I'd take 18% :-)

I also have thought about buying notes on folio but it's still largely an unknown for me and I haven't taken the time to dig into it deeper.  I probably should.

core

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I also have thought about buying notes on folio but it's still largely an unknown for me and I haven't taken the time to dig into it deeper.  I probably should.

This seems to be the answer I hear every time someone mentions it.  Curiouser and curiouser.  It takes time to come here and complain about not finding any notes.  (And that activity is fun, I understand, don't get me wrong.)  But in the same amount of time one could have gotten fully invested in what one wanted in the first place.  And I'm not picking on you, thezfunk, everyone else says the same thing.

Here is my suggestion for 3rd party site developers:
When the user sets up their auto-buy filters, eagerly awaiting the next drop in 4 hours, show them this message:

Filters saved.

There are 189 notes matching your exact criteria right now at a discount.  Click here to buy them, or you may leave your filters in place and hope to catch a couple the next time LC releases some IF you're lucky.  You pick, Einstein.

JDowding

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We may need to open some filters up...look at higher rated notes.  Maybe a B note won't kill us (that is, you'll still get better yield than a lot of debt instruments available).

You may be right about that, opening up some filters.  But instead of buying a B note, wouldn't it be better to buy that E note that you really wanted... on Folio?   I am seriously not understanding why people are willing to take a 5-10% decrease in interest rate before buying Folio notes

I can only speak for myself, but I tried Folio when I first got here (8/2012), thought the interface sucked, and haven't been back.     

core

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I can only speak for myself, but I tried Folio when I first got here (8/2012), thought the interface sucked, and haven't been back.   

Certainly the interface does suck.  That's where the 3rd party developers can pick up the slack and make some coin at the same time.  Also make many people happy who wouldn't have been able to get invested otherwise.  But oops, it seems we are banning such 3rd parties from Folio these days??

Lovinglifestyle

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My reason for not buying on Folio is that I haven't yet given up looking at the notes and total current debt balance at the time the note was issued--let alone present time--is not available on PeerCube for issued notes.

AnilG

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You will have detailed information for loans that are already issued on PeerCube very soon and ability to filter loans using your strategy for available loans. But PeerCube will not screen-scrape Foliofn site to show available notes. You will need to reconcile Foliofn notes with issued loan information yourself.

My reason for not buying on Folio is that I haven't yet given up looking at the notes and total current debt balance at the time the note was issued--let alone present time--is not available on PeerCube for issued notes.
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Anil Gupta
PeerCube Thoughts blog https://www.peercube.com/blog
PeerCube https://www.peercube.com

Rob L

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Back to the chart for a moment. Doesn't that step function decline in available notes very early in the release imply a single buyer? With resolution of 2 sec it seems pretty unlikely multiple large buyers all happened to fall into that little window. Alternatively (and I've posted this before ) it may simply be a natural artifact of how the LC software works under heavy load. It's complicated stuff.



viking

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Back to the chart for a moment. Doesn't that step function decline in available notes very early in the release imply a single buyer? With resolution of 2 sec it seems pretty unlikely multiple large buyers all happened to fall into that little window. Alternatively (and I've posted this before ) it may simply be a natural artifact of how the LC software works under heavy load. It's complicated stuff.
Could you please explain "natural artifact of how the LC software works under heavy load"?

Fred

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Maybe a B note won't kill us (that is, you'll still get better yield than a lot of debt instruments available).  Expanding the "good note" universe to C and D notes expands the number of issued notes by a factor of 10.

+1

Not only does the universe expand by a factor of 10; the risks also decrease as significantly.  For loans originated in 2010, the charge-off rates of B loans (~6%) are about 1/3 of those of F+G loans (~17%).

These following charts are from LC Form 10-K:




Rob L

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Could you please explain "natural artifact of how the LC software works under heavy load"?
No, not at all; not that smart. I'm saying that complex things sometimes behave in unpredictable non-deterministic ways (even to those that built them). The LC software I think probably can be said to be complex and is being exposed to loads it has not seen before (at least not in actual operation). I do believe your graph is "ground truth" whatever the reason(s), and it ain't good.

rawraw

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Re: Is even the API too "Slow"? Many Loans are Gone Before Caught by the API.
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2013, 12:30:30 PM »
I don't want to weigh in too heavily here, but if I can just make the larger point that folks forget that all of the LC universe seems focused on the very smallest fraction of LC notes that are available.  I see that in 2013, there have been 66,027 loans that LC has issued: assuming by "good notes" people mean E-G 400+, the number issued is 1,302.  Less than 2%.  Filters more restrictive than IR01 alone will yield even less. 

I really think we all should take Peter's post to heart and re-evaluate our expectations.  Unless users of other auto-invest services would like to weigh in, I think it's pretty unreasonable to target the same 2% of notes everybody else wants and be surprised to be shut out of them.  We may need to open some filters up...look at higher rated notes.  Maybe a B note won't kill us (that is, you'll still get better yield than a lot of debt instruments available).  Expanding the "good note" universe to C and D notes expands the number of issued notes by a factor of 10.
This is what LC told me when I told them this forum's concern a month or two ago.

viking

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UPDATED 9/18/13. Because of a post by Rev today (http://www.lendacademy.com/forum/index.php?topic=1583.msg12564#msg12564), I compared the number of available loans on LC and IR again; IR's posting time is now much improved! Thanks, Rev!
(see first post in this thread with an additional graph)