Author Topic: 6 Outrageous Facts That Show How Payday Lenders Screw Consumers  (Read 27215 times)

New Jersey Guy

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Re: 6 Outrageous Facts That Show How Payday Lenders Screw Consumers
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2013, 04:19:18 PM »
"But what would you call it when a group of bakery owners gets together and decides to lie to their customers about day-old bread laws in order to get the customers to shell out more cash for higher priced bread?"

Maybe Bigfoot is making them do it.  I dunno!  Better call in DanB Cooper to set the record straight!
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rlv99

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Re: 6 Outrageous Facts That Show How Payday Lenders Screw Consumers
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2013, 05:36:39 PM »
It's probably not every day that customers go in there to buy bread wearing guns.

Core- Appearance is important!     So you walk into this bakery, strapped, in your overalls wearing your wife-beater tee shirt that says "If your name is Stephanie, draw!"  The baker obviously doesn't know you.  He says to himself,"feed the deer? yea, right! This guy wants the bread to feed the illegals in his meth lab!"   So, he makes up the story to get rid of you.  Appearance is important!     :)

dontvote

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Re: 6 Outrageous Facts That Show How Payday Lenders Screw Consumers
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2013, 09:28:32 PM »
This thread got a lot funnier but I'm not sure there is a lot of good arguments against the fact that payday loans are screwing consumers.  What default rate would you need to charge 200% APR and make a profit of 15% after expenses? 40%? I'll be these guys are facing like 10%-15% defaults (though I don't know). I'm unswayed by their rental charge and paying someone 45K to mind the store and do collections.

I'm not sure that armani suits screw consumers any less. just different consumers. When your business is predicated on 'subsistence' activities like food gaps (is that what the kids say now?) and covering basic rent etc. you are in an interesting moral position. Margins on high end goods are certainly a lot higher than most margins on low.

That being said your comment may apply well to people who are actually lazy morons with lawnmowers in their noses but doesn't take into account people with dependents. Those little shits ARE a second and third job and the pay sucks.

I don't see how charging 574% interest is "screwing consumers".  It doesn't even matter what the default rate is or what brick-and-mortar overhead is.  That has absolutely nothing to do with it because until the socialists control this country, you don't get to decide what a fair price is.  The customers do.  The interest rate is posted right on the wall in large font.  It's on the document you signed.  You walked in there and freely made the decision to pay that price.

If you need some more money to cover bills then get off your butt and get another job for a few weeks.  Strap on a leaf blower and blow some leaves.  (Rich people are afraid of leaves.)  Deliver some pizzas.  Stop putting your paycheck up your nose.  If the matter is so urgent that you cannot wait, then go right in there and get the loan, but don't whine about your own decision.

And yes, I have taken out several payday loans in my younger more irresponsible days.  I do have experience in the matter.

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dontvote

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rlv99

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Re: 6 Outrageous Facts That Show How Payday Lenders Screw Consumers
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2013, 01:16:33 AM »
I'm not sure that armani suits screw consumers any less.

Of course they don't !  It is strictly a business with the payday lenders as well.  Here in Florida we have over 600 Amscot "stores" which are actually the banking institution for the low wage earner.  I use their facilities to wire money to the off-shore casinos that I deal with.  There is nothing immoral about the way they do business from my observations.  They provide financial services to a segment of the population that doesn't even have a checking account.  They are providing  services to a customer that can't get it anywhere else.  IMO, they are being paid what the market will bear.  Just like the baker ( who won't sell day-old bread to core for his deer), the pharmacist, the mechanic, and the doctor. 

Milken's Institute probably conducted the study to see how he could get into the business!   :)

If you are going to question the ethics/morality of the payday lenders, then you need to look at every  profit making company, and some non-profits, as well.  Who is to judge?



 

dontvote

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Re: 6 Outrageous Facts That Show How Payday Lenders Screw Consumers
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2013, 04:26:54 PM »
to be clear, I don't think there is anything immoral about these businesses, as long as they aren't stealing or committing fraud. vultures parasites and the little fish in the amazon that swim up your peehole are all part of the natural ecosystem and have as much right as anything else to live and try to thrive. I'm just pointing out that there is a financial death spiral that occurs when you have to borrow money at high rates to pay for basic needs that is pretty sad. Imagining that a person's labor and honest effort go completely to the benefit of a payday lender (or a credit card at 30%, or an insurance company or living in a motel etc.) instead of directly paying for those basic needs or building even a modest capital base to guard against tragedy or give their dependents a leg up is tough. call me a bleeding heart libertarian if you must.

dontcarehowyougetitbutyoubettergetmemymoney
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investforfreedom

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Re: 6 Outrageous Facts That Show How Payday Lenders Screw Consumers
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2013, 04:11:18 PM »
I can still recall that right after 9/11, there were gas stations exploiting the situation by jacking up gas prices.  Following your line of reasoning, there is nothing immoral even about that, since they weren't "stealing or committing fraud"?   How about legalizing the sale of organs?  There is an ample supply of poor people in the third world who are ready to part with one of their kidneys for $20k or less.  They can never afford to buy from us, since we would probably be charging 10 times or more to be willing to forgo one of our kidneys.  Just by sheer luck of natural lottery, we from the first world could buy a whole bunch of spare organs from them and perhaps even resell them at a profit!  And there is nothing immoral about taking advantage of people in dire straits.



to be clear, I don't think there is anything immoral about these businesses, as long as they aren't stealing or committing fraud. vultures parasites and the little fish in the amazon that swim up your peehole are all part of the natural ecosystem and have as much right as anything else to live and try to thrive. I'm just pointing out that there is a financial death spiral that occurs when you have to borrow money at high rates to pay for basic needs that is pretty sad. Imagining that a person's labor and honest effort go completely to the benefit of a payday lender (or a credit card at 30%, or an insurance company or living in a motel etc.) instead of directly paying for those basic needs or building even a modest capital base to guard against tragedy or give their dependents a leg up is tough. call me a bleeding heart libertarian if you must.

dontcarehowyougetitbutyoubettergetmemymoney

dontvote

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Re: 6 Outrageous Facts That Show How Payday Lenders Screw Consumers
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2013, 11:46:14 AM »
That slippery slope has two sides. Why don't we outlaw the exploitation of a person't labor. From everyone according to their ability - to everyone according to their need!

I can still recall that right after 9/11, there were gas stations exploiting the situation by jacking up gas prices.  Following your line of reasoning, there is nothing immoral even about that, since they weren't "stealing or committing fraud"?   How about legalizing the sale of organs?  There is an ample supply of poor people in the third world who are ready to part with one of their kidneys for $20k or less.  They can never afford to buy from us, since we would probably be charging 10 times or more to be willing to forgo one of our kidneys.  Just by sheer luck of natural lottery, we from the first world could buy a whole bunch of spare organs from them and perhaps even resell them at a profit!  And there is nothing immoral about taking advantage of people in dire straits.



to be clear, I don't think there is anything immoral about these businesses, as long as they aren't stealing or committing fraud. vultures parasites and the little fish in the amazon that swim up your peehole are all part of the natural ecosystem and have as much right as anything else to live and try to thrive. I'm just pointing out that there is a financial death spiral that occurs when you have to borrow money at high rates to pay for basic needs that is pretty sad. Imagining that a person's labor and honest effort go completely to the benefit of a payday lender (or a credit card at 30%, or an insurance company or living in a motel etc.) instead of directly paying for those basic needs or building even a modest capital base to guard against tragedy or give their dependents a leg up is tough. call me a bleeding heart libertarian if you must.

dontcarehowyougetitbutyoubettergetmemymoney
dontvote

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rlv99

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Re: 6 Outrageous Facts That Show How Payday Lenders Screw Consumers
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2013, 12:54:58 PM »
From everyone according to their ability - to everyone according to their need!

OMG, Lenin's ghost is our thread!   Doesn't work, my friend- been proven!  The greed of man is still present even in your scenario.

investforfreedom

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Re: 6 Outrageous Facts That Show How Payday Lenders Screw Consumers
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2013, 11:28:13 AM »
You are setting up a false alternative, which I am not interested in: free-for-all libertarianism or a cynical socialist view of the exploitation of labor under market capitalist systems. 

I am just asking you this question: "If you pulled up your car to a gas station that jacked up their gas prices right after 9/11--over the dead bodies of some 3000 people, how would you feel?"  We can take a vote if you don't think there's a problem.   



That slippery slope has two sides. Why don't we outlaw the exploitation of a person't labor. From everyone according to their ability - to everyone according to their need!

I can still recall that right after 9/11, there were gas stations exploiting the situation by jacking up gas prices.  Following your line of reasoning, there is nothing immoral even about that, since they weren't "stealing or committing fraud"?   How about legalizing the sale of organs?  There is an ample supply of poor people in the third world who are ready to part with one of their kidneys for $20k or less.  They can never afford to buy from us, since we would probably be charging 10 times or more to be willing to forgo one of our kidneys.  Just by sheer luck of natural lottery, we from the first world could buy a whole bunch of spare organs from them and perhaps even resell them at a profit!  And there is nothing immoral about taking advantage of people in dire straits.



to be clear, I don't think there is anything immoral about these businesses, as long as they aren't stealing or committing fraud. vultures parasites and the little fish in the amazon that swim up your peehole are all part of the natural ecosystem and have as much right as anything else to live and try to thrive. I'm just pointing out that there is a financial death spiral that occurs when you have to borrow money at high rates to pay for basic needs that is pretty sad. Imagining that a person's labor and honest effort go completely to the benefit of a payday lender (or a credit card at 30%, or an insurance company or living in a motel etc.) instead of directly paying for those basic needs or building even a modest capital base to guard against tragedy or give their dependents a leg up is tough. call me a bleeding heart libertarian if you must.

dontcarehowyougetitbutyoubettergetmemymoney
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 11:30:47 AM by investforfreedom »

core

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Re: 6 Outrageous Facts That Show How Payday Lenders Screw Consumers
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2013, 11:44:37 AM »
I am just asking you this question: "If you pulled up your car to a gas station that jacked up their gas prices right after 9/11, how would you feel?"  We can take a vote if you don't think that's a problem.   

It's the gas station owner's gas, and he can do with it what he wants.  If you don't like his prices don't buy his gas.

If some socialist wants to outlaw that (and I believe they already have) then all the owner has to do is pump his tanks dry into trucks, shut down the pumps for the week/month and sell all that gas to another business at "inflated" (market) prices.  Would you rather have seen a "No gas today" sign instead?

Some think the laws of supply and demand shouldn't apply after a disaster for some reason.  When in reality that's where they really shine.  When I run a business for profit (and not a public service), my bank account couldn't care less about any tornadoes or typhoons.  It is hungry for more zeros.

DanB

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Re: 6 Outrageous Facts That Show How Payday Lenders Screw Consumers
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2013, 09:03:51 PM »
I am just asking you this question: "If you pulled up your car to a gas station that jacked up their gas prices right after 9/11, how would you feel?"  We can take a vote if you don't think that's a problem.   

It's the gas station owner's gas, and he can do with it what he wants.  If you don't like his prices don't buy his gas.

If some socialist wants to outlaw that (and I believe they already have) then all the owner has to do is pump his tanks dry into trucks, shut down the pumps for the week/month and sell all that gas to another business at "inflated" (market) prices.  Would you rather have seen a "No gas today" sign instead?

Some think the laws of supply and demand shouldn't apply after a disaster for some reason.  When in reality that's where they really shine.  When I run a business for profit (and not a public service), my bank account couldn't care less about any tornadoes or typhoons.  It is hungry for more zeros.


Forget gas station. How about the only grocery store with bottled water in an isolated small town, after a chemical attack has polluted all the natural water supply in the area. I bet the laws of supply & demand will really shine here too, won't it Core? So the grocery store owner charges $300 for a bottle of Evian today. Tomorrow it goes up to $400 because his bank account  is hungry for more zeros. Come on Core, you live in the middle of nowhere. Be candid & tell us how this scenario will likely play out if this town doesn't get outside relief real quickly.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 09:06:31 PM by DanB »

core

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Re: 6 Outrageous Facts That Show How Payday Lenders Screw Consumers
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2013, 09:36:16 PM »
Come on Core, you live in the middle of nowhere. Be candid & tell us how this scenario will likely play out if this town doesn't get outside relief real quickly.

Here's how that water scenario would play out:  Core would become quite a bit wealthier selling $400 bottles of water from his underground concrete cistern which stores several thousand gallons and is always kept chock full for just such an event.  Well more so for the Russians rather than chemical attack, but same deal.  When that runs out I suppose I would be "forced" to drink moonshine instead, or use the 'still for purifying questionable sources of water.  Those that didn't want to pay $400 could be creative with whatever equipment they had.

Seems like it would be a lot cheaper for the folks individually to hire a water truck from some area of the country that is not polluted, though.  It doesn't cost that much (under normal circumstances) and there are lots of trucks and drivers who would be willing to make a long drive since that's what they do anyway.  Especially if the profit was even just 2x as much as the normal business of hauling around My Pretty Ponies to Walmart or whatever.

DanB

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Re: 6 Outrageous Facts That Show How Payday Lenders Screw Consumers
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2013, 10:23:45 PM »
Core...............What part of "isolated small town" did you not read?

Price controls,  limitations on pure supply & demand, social services, the courts or some other system to settle disputes etc etc................are the price we pay, the understanding we strike, in order to live in a close proximity "civilized" society, such as it is. These are far from perfect solutions to problems, but they are much better than the alternative descent into savagery without any of these checks. We must all temper our greed Core, for the good of the community. So hand over those bottles of Evian for a "fair price" or my buddies & I will just come over & take them from you by force. Who determines what a fair price is, you ask?? We the community do!  :)
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 01:48:22 AM by DanB »

bobeubanks

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Re: 6 Outrageous Facts That Show How Payday Lenders Screw Consumers
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2013, 02:23:41 AM »
Core is looking forward to the day when it is just him vs. the Koch brothers. I'd put my money (if I had any left) on Core.

DanB

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Re: 6 Outrageous Facts That Show How Payday Lenders Screw Consumers
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2013, 03:31:44 PM »
Core is looking forward to the day when it is just him vs. the Koch brothers. I'd put my money (if I had any left) on Core.

No, no. Core's ideal future day is when it is just him vs. people who aren't quite smart enough to realize that they aren't smart enough to go up against him. For example, the higher the number of people who think they can make good money on Folio by trading, the better it is for Core. Remember, your loss, is his gain. Why else do you think he's always encouraging people to get in the shark infested Folio waters. The only way you can get bitten my friends,..............  is by voluntarily & unnecessarily going in the water.  :)