Author Topic: Auto Invest for Folio  (Read 13460 times)

mikedave

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Auto Invest for Folio
« on: January 23, 2014, 07:25:57 PM »
Are there any auto-invest programs or sites for Folio?  I keep seeing miss-priced notes on IR but I'm never fast enough to grab them.

Bohb Daishi

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Re: Auto Invest for Folio
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2014, 03:00:40 AM »
There used to be many, but unfortunately Core put them all out of business.
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Bohb Daishi

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Re: Auto Invest for Folio
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2014, 12:05:21 PM »
Are there any auto-invest programs or sites for Folio?  I keep seeing miss-priced notes on IR but I'm never fast enough to grab them.

I was hoping for Core to say something witty, but looks like I didn't set him up properly.

The answer is no, there are no publicly-available auto-invest programs for folio, at least not that I'm aware of. I'm sure you could make a decent amount of money from us folio traders though, if you could build one that worked well... *hint* *hint*
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core

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Re: Auto Invest for Folio
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2014, 12:30:03 PM »
I didn't say anything witty because the truth is very logical and dry:

Even if a site offered auto-invest for Folio, it would not be geared towards what the OP wants, the mispriced notes.  The reason is simple:  If the notes are grossly mispriced it makes more sense for the developers of the site to keep those notes for themselves.  If they are collecting $5/mo per subscriber, then if they hand that subscriber more than $5 of "gimmies" in a month then the site is "losing" money.  Conversely, if the subscriber doesn't get $5 of gimmies, then he is wasting his money and will discontinue paying the fee.

No, the only way it makes any kind of financial sense is if there are customizable filters which appeal to a wide array of investors looking for different things.  Investors who are looking to take on risk for returns over time, not quick profits.  The math just doesn't work out any other way.

Joleran

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Re: Auto Invest for Folio
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2014, 12:42:47 PM »
I know I've seen more notes get snatched up pretty much instantly as of late, so there are definitely automated buying programs out there, or just a lot of people with a lot of time on their hands.  A lot of them aren't really mispriced, just excellent notes at par value with less than 18 months remaining on them.

Bohb Daishi

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Re: Auto Invest for Folio
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2014, 01:07:42 PM »
Even if a site offered auto-invest for Folio, it would not be geared towards what the OP wants, the mispriced notes.  The reason is simple:  If the notes are grossly mispriced it makes more sense for the developers of the site to keep those notes for themselves.  If they are collecting $5/mo per subscriber, then if they hand that subscriber more than $5 of "gimmies" in a month then the site is "losing" money.  Conversely, if the subscriber doesn't get $5 of gimmies, then he is wasting his money and will discontinue paying the fee.

Not necessarily true. Offer different features at different costs. I, for one, would be more than willing to pay upwards of $100 to $300+ each month, depending on how well the service automated my folio trading. For me, it's a matter of time spent vs. cost. If I can pay $100-300 a month to save 10-30 hours of work, I'll do it, because my time is worth much more than $10/hr.
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Bohb Daishi

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Re: Auto Invest for Folio
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2014, 01:10:09 PM »
Then again, people like you an I are in the 1% who would be using the service to automate our trading. The vast majority would just use it to purchase buy-and-hold notes at investment-worthy discounts.
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core

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Re: Auto Invest for Folio
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2014, 01:30:58 PM »
Not necessarily true. Offer different features at different costs. I, for one, would be more than willing to pay upwards of $100 to $300+ each month, depending on how well the service automated my folio trading. For me, it's a matter of time spent vs. cost. If I can pay $100-300 a month to save 10-30 hours of work, I'll do it, because my time is worth much more than $10/hr.

I didn't say that a Folio auto-invest service couldn't be of good value to both parties.  Quite the contrary.  I didn't even say that it would have to be a cheap fee.  But what I did say is that anything that was based purely on speed , mispriced notes (rather than individual investor goals) could not be offered.  Your example does not contradict my point.  If the service is doing what _you_ want it to do, then both parties are happy.  But if the admins' code sees that they are just giving you gimmies that they see are being flipped the very next day always for a profit, that won't last for long.

Hell if you are willing to pay $300/mo I'd be willing to give you some automation that would cut your workload down to nothing.  Of course then I'd see all your dirty little secrets. And the vast majority of traders want to keep those to themselves.  :) 

Bohb Daishi

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Re: Auto Invest for Folio
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2014, 01:42:07 PM »
Not necessarily true. Offer different features at different costs. I, for one, would be more than willing to pay upwards of $100 to $300+ each month, depending on how well the service automated my folio trading. For me, it's a matter of time spent vs. cost. If I can pay $100-300 a month to save 10-30 hours of work, I'll do it, because my time is worth much more than $10/hr.

I didn't say that a Folio auto-invest service couldn't be of good value to both parties.  Quite the contrary.  I didn't even say that it would have to be a cheap fee.  But what I did say is that anything that was based purely on speed , mispriced notes (rather than individual investor goals) could not be offered.  Your example does not contradict my point.  If the service is doing what _you_ want it to do, then both parties are happy.  But if the admins' code sees that they are just giving you gimmies that they see are being flipped the very next day always for a profit, that won't last for long.

This assumes that:
1: The developers actually have a time/desire/funds to trade notes.
2: The developers are savvy enough to extract strategies from a user's purchasing patterns.
3: They have the skills/mindset to be able to trade succesfully.
4: The fees are sufficient enough to incentivize the developers to NOT compete with the users.
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core

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Re: Auto Invest for Folio
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2014, 01:52:21 PM »
1: The developers actually have a time/desire/funds to trade notes.
2: The developers are savvy enough to extract strategies from a user's purchasing patterns.
3: They have the skills/mindset to be able to trade succesfully.

All of these are taken care of by automation.  The developers don't need the trading skills when the users have it.  I'm only taking about the quick profits.  Anything that requires waiting on something else to happen (such as a note being brought current) would be a different story.  This is a perfect use of a service.  I'm just saying 2-day handouts (the OP's request) wouldn't happen.

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4: The fees are sufficient enough to incentivize the developers to NOT compete with the users.

Again, this goes back to handouts vs. actual multi-week strategy.  If the fees are lower than the handouts then you won't get the handouts.  If the fees are higher than the handouts, AND the whole reason for signing up is for the handouts, then you won't pay them because you won't make enough.

But if you have a legit _strategy_ (not grossly mispriced notes) then definitely a service would be of good use.  And possibly profitable for the admins too.

My offer still stands.  And for anyone else that's reading this, if you want to spend $300/mo I'll make available whatever your little heart desires.

core

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Re: Auto Invest for Folio
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2014, 02:13:27 PM »
How do you know this, lcdude?

Emmanuel

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Re: Auto Invest for Folio
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2014, 05:19:02 PM »
LC runs their own folio bot that is frontrunning all other investors. It automatically snatches grossly mispriced loans before they even show up in the folio listings. Sorry, any attempts to implement an automated strategy for buying grossly mispriced loans will be fruitless.

That's surprising, given that no capacity (Issuers / Broker-Dealer / Adviser) would allow LC to front-run their clients, and they seems pretty respectful of regulations.

core

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Re: Auto Invest for Folio
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2014, 05:23:40 PM »
That's surprising, given that no capacity (Issuers / Broker-Dealer / Adviser) would allow LC to front-run their clients, and they seems pretty respectful of regulations.

Emmanuel, do you know of any broker-dealer who can permanently halt trading of a security for all of their customers, forcing said customers to hold on for eternity?

Didn't think so.  Thanks.

core

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Re: Auto Invest for Folio
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2014, 05:33:37 PM »
In defense of Lending Club (God forbid), what lcdude is saying is flat-out wrong.  They do not front-run on Folio and I have plenty of proof.  For starters, there was that thread from yesterday started by the guy who fat-fingered a note or two.  If LC was front running nobody would have had the trade data.

Keep in mind lcdude had a rather rocky start on this forum.

core

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Re: Auto Invest for Folio
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2014, 06:41:09 PM »
They are also free to buy loans from WebBank, which they in fact do for every single loan they issue.

*yawn*  No kidding.

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LC is free to trade on folio for their own account as much as anyone else. Perhaps the word 'front-running' is too loaded - they are not doing anything illegal.

I'm not even talking about legality.  Screw legality.  I asked you once, I'll ask again:  What makes you think that Lending Club is front-running?  If they're front-running they're doing a piss-poor job of it when little ol' me can beat them once in a while.  Do you want to explain that?  Do you want to explain any of these comments of yours? 

Yet another person I have to start "a file" on.   lcdude you can come clean or we can all examine your life history right here in the thread.  You pick.