Author Topic: prior Grace Period payment => Late vs Never Late  (Read 6105 times)

Kowser

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
    • Email
prior Grace Period payment => Late vs Never Late
« on: April 20, 2014, 05:37:15 PM »
I have a many notes with paid in Grace Period logs. Most of them don't show up in the Never Late Folio listings, some of them do. On occasion I see other's Never Late notes that also have paid IGP. Anyone know what the determining factor is whether this is a Never Late note or not?

twigster

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 95
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: prior Grace Period payment => Late vs Never Late
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2014, 09:46:53 AM »
I have the same question.  Here is an example note:
https://www.lendingclub.com/foliofn/browseNotesLoanPerf.action?showfoliofn=true&loan_id=3628523&order_id=5776589&note_id=20208691

I have noticed when scanning never late notes that some times paid in grace periods pop in (and bought a few that I didn't think had ever paid late).

Fred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1421
    • View Profile
Re: prior Grace Period payment => Late vs Never Late
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2014, 10:49:55 AM »
I have noticed when scanning never late notes that some times paid in grace periods pop in (and bought a few that I didn't think had ever paid late).

https://www.lendingclub.com/public/rates-and-fees.action
" ... a Late Payment Fee is assessed on the 16th day to compensate investors for the delay."

I was under the impression that a note is not considered late if paid during IGP.

yojoakak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 763
    • View Profile
    • Check out my Greasemonkey/Tampermonkey script for LendingClub here
    • Email
Re: prior Grace Period payment => Late vs Never Late
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2014, 11:16:33 AM »
Sometimes there is a Completed - in grace period when the Completion Date isn't any later than any of the other Completion Dates. I still don't understand how that happens.

For example, https://www.lendingclub.com/foliofn/loanPerf.action?loan_id=1475810&order_id=3200199&note_id=13073162&purchase_price=18.50

yojoakak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 763
    • View Profile
    • Check out my Greasemonkey/Tampermonkey script for LendingClub here
    • Email
Re: prior Grace Period payment => Late vs Never Late
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2014, 11:29:33 AM »

https://www.lendingclub.com/public/rates-and-fees.action
" ... a Late Payment Fee is assessed on the 16th day to compensate investors for the delay."

I was under the impression that a note is not considered late if paid during IGP.

Late Payment Fees are a lot harder to find than one would think.

I wonder what percentage of "Completed - NN days late" payments actually get assessed a Late Payment Fee. My guess would be less than half.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 11:34:30 AM by yojoakak »

core

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1784
  • Your loss is my gain
    • View Profile
Re: prior Grace Period payment => Late vs Never Late
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2014, 11:11:03 PM »
Anyone know what the determining factor is whether this is a Never Late note or not?

No, nobody knows what the determining factors are for whether a given note shows up in the never late search.  Not even Lending Club.  Because their code has been broken for quite some time and they have no motivation to fix it.  There is no logic to how it currently works.  Notes with not even a scratch sometimes do not get treated as never late, and sometimes notes with blemishes do make it through.  With NO consistency.

The most likely explanation (aside from the usual incompetence at Lending Club) is that the LC programmers are trying to design in some job security.  Once all the wish list items are done, and there are no new items to develop, where are the developer types going to work?  Best to have a large list of serious bugs.  They've succeeded in doing that so far.

It is also possible that a rogue programmer designed it so that it actually is consistent, but only in a manner that can be (easily) determined by the person who created it.  This way even if he gets fired he can make cash trading on Folio with the advance knowledge of what will be treated as never late, and when.

Bohb Daishi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 481
  • I eat free lunches
    • View Profile
Re: prior Grace Period payment => Late vs Never Late
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2014, 01:20:59 AM »
I have a many notes with paid in Grace Period logs. Most of them don't show up in the Never Late Folio listings, some of them do. On occasion I see other's Never Late notes that also have paid IGP. Anyone know what the determining factor is whether this is a Never Late note or not?

One of the factors I noticed is whether or not the due date falls on a weekend, especially if it's a holiday weekend.

https://www.lendingclub.com/public/rates-and-fees.action
" ... a Late Payment Fee is assessed on the 16th day to compensate investors for the delay."

Late Payment Fees are a lot harder to find than one would think.

I wonder what percentage of "Completed - NN days late" payments actually get assessed a Late Payment Fee. My guess would be less than half.

The true answer is more like <1%. Out of the the ~4000 notes that I have traded so far (95% of which were late when I purchased), I have only received $15.42 in late fees, but $8,349.48 in payments. Late fees are incredibly rare. They also seem to be assessed completely at random.
There are three ways to make a living in this business: be first, be smarter, or cheat.

rawraw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2768
    • View Profile
Re: prior Grace Period payment => Late vs Never Late
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2014, 01:44:01 PM »
Anyone know what the determining factor is whether this is a Never Late note or not?

No, nobody knows what the determining factors are for whether a given note shows up in the never late search.  Not even Lending Club.  Because their code has been broken for quite some time and they have no motivation to fix it.  There is no logic to how it currently works.  Notes with not even a scratch sometimes do not get treated as never late, and sometimes notes with blemishes do make it through.  With NO consistency.

The most likely explanation (aside from the usual incompetence at Lending Club) is that the LC programmers are trying to design in some job security.  Once all the wish list items are done, and there are no new items to develop, where are the developer types going to work?  Best to have a large list of serious bugs.  They've succeeded in doing that so far.

It is also possible that a rogue programmer designed it so that it actually is consistent, but only in a manner that can be (easily) determined by the person who created it.  This way even if he gets fired he can make cash trading on Folio with the advance knowledge of what will be treated as never late, and when.
You never fall short of thinking of creative ways to make money ha ha

twigster

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 95
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: prior Grace Period payment => Late vs Never Late
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2014, 10:38:41 AM »
Quote
Sometimes there is a Completed - in grace period when the Completion Date isn't any later than any of the other Completion Dates. I still don't understand how that happens.
Yes, have also noticed this on several notes.  Also some times the up/down/same credit indicator is on way on the summary screen and a different way in the actual listing.  Seems LC wants to make sure we look at each note individually and don't rely on anything on the summary screen!

core

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1784
  • Your loss is my gain
    • View Profile
Re: prior Grace Period payment => Late vs Never Late
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2014, 02:46:58 PM »
Seems LC wants to make sure we look at each note individually and don't rely on anything on the summary screen!

It's not just that.  If you hit a bunch of the Edgecast proxies or used some different IPs, you'd see the exact same issues... data is all over the place, depending on who you ask. 

You single-IP folks think you're getting accurate data.  WRONG.  You're getting stale data and you don't even know it.  Good luck with your trading, that way. 

You see a red arrow and I know it will be a green one tomorrow, guess who's gonna win.  I'd be getting on LC's case if I were you because I'm going to keep spanking you as long as this goes on.  I think I'd make more (honest) profit if things were on the level and predictable though, which is the reason I'm even mentioning it.   My IRR is over 400%.  On the backs of stale data victims like you (and some idiot 70% buyers, but that's the subject of a diff thread).  That's gotta stick in your craw.  Call your account rep today and demand that they fix these data sync issues or the market will never be fair.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 02:58:30 PM by core »

Rob L

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2065
    • View Profile
Re: prior Grace Period payment => Late vs Never Late
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2014, 06:48:53 PM »
It's not just that.  If you hit a bunch of the Edgecast proxies or used some different IPs, you'd see the exact same issues...
Core, you've very eloquently made the point I suggested in a post a few weeks ago.

One should factor in "who" exactly is on the other side of their trade, and why you think you're going to take their money.
I dare say most folks might guess Edgecast proxies have something to do with the latest in fishing gear. Maybe some, even most, might know what an IP is.

However, in trading markets there are people who devote a huge amount of time and energy seeking even the slightest informational advantage; and they will, on balance, win.
They'll find market idiosyncrasies, skews, deltas, and errors and use them until they no longer work, then move to new opportunities that arise.

As a trader one must either step up to the game, understand you are in, very possibly, the most competitive endeavour on the planet, then find your own edge, exploits, advantages, etc.
Otherwise, know you will lose before you begin so simply don't play the game. It isn't a casual endeavour.

Even if LC fixed the all stuff mentioned in this thread, other factors would still exist and provide an advantage to the better informed, most diligent and hard working traders.

hdsouza

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
    • View Profile
Re: prior Grace Period payment => Late vs Never Late
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2018, 08:14:29 PM »
As a trader one must either step up to the game, understand you are in, very possibly, the most competitive endeavour on the planet, then find your own edge, exploits, advantages, etc.
Otherwise, know you will lose before you begin so simply don't play the game. It isn't a casual endeavour.

I echo that sentiment, Rob. I spend about 2 hours every day (even through I have an auto trading system) going through each of my notes in grace / late period to determine if they are really bad and have found a whirlwind of information.

Getting back to the main topic I just got a NEVER LATE note which has been in grace period since inception and often paid on Multiple days. https://www.lendingclub.com/account/loanPerf.action?loan_id=75828740&order_id=184206463&note_id=122187546 . I am clueless how LC classifies this as Never late.
This has not been the first NEVER LATE note I have received in grace period , but this one definitively sucks.

JohnnyP

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: prior Grace Period payment => Late vs Never Late
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2018, 10:23:19 AM »
Core wrote:

It's not just that.  If you hit a bunch of the Edgecast proxies or used some different IPs, you'd see the exact same issues... data is all over the place, depending on who you ask. 

You single-IP folks think you're getting accurate data.  WRONG.  You're getting stale data and you don't even know it.  Good luck with your trading, that way. 

You see a red arrow and I know it will be a green one tomorrow, guess who's gonna win.  I'd be getting on LC's case if I were you because I'm going to keep spanking you as long as this goes on.  I think I'd make more (honest) profit if things were on the level and predictable though, which is the reason I'm even mentioning it.   My IRR is over 400%.  On the backs of stale data victims like you (and some idiot 70% buyers, but that's the subject of a diff thread).  That's gotta stick in your craw.  Call your account rep today and demand that they fix these data sync issues or the market will never be fair.



So, I buy current notes that trend up or flat that are half way to maturity. Is there someway I can be getting shammed on a bunch of these?