Author Topic: Loan Information Asymmetrical Timing  (Read 72613 times)

rawraw

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Re: Loan Information Asymmetrical Timing
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2014, 07:45:03 AM »
Curious to hear LC's reply.  You sent this to them Bryce?

Lovinglifestyle

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Re: Loan Information Asymmetrical Timing
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2014, 09:53:59 AM »
I'm also curious to hear LC's reply to Bryce.

Fairness is quite the sticky wicket.  API, CSV, and the site all feeding at the same time seems fairest to me.

GS, sorry about the pants analogy.  That was bad.  I like your stock analogy much better.  I'll edit mine out.

Fred, the Amazon system would create a lot of one-note orders from individuals.  It is fair, but the order proliferation could be a problem if enough manual selectors hang on.

Bryce and GS, I don't remember who used the words hoarding and cheating in a different thread yesterday, but it wasn't you and that viewpoint is not new.  It has long been a criticism of the system and has sometimes been directed at individuals (not at me, but feel free to do so now!).

btw, IR was slow this morning and too late for some loans.  I'm grateful that the 3rd sites are still operating at all and for all the work their developers have done.  Don't know why LC ignores the main reasons people are using them while trying to be so "improved".


 


GS

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Re: Loan Information Asymmetrical Timing
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2014, 11:35:03 AM »
Don't know why LC ignores the main reasons people are using them while trying to be so "improved".

I couldn't agree more.  If LC offered a filtering service in which one could filter all the available data, and write SQL type statements like (Mo. Payment/Mo. Income < 0.10), etc, as part of their filtering, with an instant auto purchase option, priority given to buyers who have gone the longest without having an order placed .... then there would be hardly any need for a 3rd party site.   Fact is, the LC website doesn't even display all the criteria available in the CSV, much less let you utilize it.   I didn't even know more criteria was available until I found this site and saw Bryce and others talking about it.  ("Say there, how did you know this guy has 5 mortgages?") 

 I don't think there is any question now that these changes are a way to make it very difficult, or impossible, for the 3rd party sites to operate.  LC needs to focus on their own shortcomings rather than trying to shut down the sites that are getting it right!

brycemason

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Re: Loan Information Asymmetrical Timing
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2014, 01:05:12 PM »
I'm sure the third party sites appreciate the acknowledgement of value added, but let's keep it on topic. It is more likely that this was a change that wasn't so well thought out and had unintended consequences.

I sent the observations to LC (one of the gentlemen in the investor services dept.) and haven't yet heard a reply beyond acknowledgement of receipt and forwarding. But, it is the weekend. Hopefully we can see equal treatment across all info feeds in the near future.

BruiserB

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Re: Loan Information Asymmetrical Timing
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2014, 07:58:50 PM »
Bryce,

Do you have any feel for how many of the loans that seem to be getting scooped up before you can get the data to run your analysis would have been top P2P-Picks?  Is it possible for you to analyze the loans that are selling quickly to determine any pattern of what might be making them desirable?

Fred

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Re: Loan Information Asymmetrical Timing
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2014, 08:43:36 PM »
I think the concept of "feeding times" (currently, 4 daily) should now be abandoned.

None of this asymmetric timing issues would matter.  It should also solve a lot of bursty demand of CPU, memory, network, etc.

brycemason

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Loan Information Asymmetrical Timing
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2014, 09:21:24 PM »
On the whole loan side, my picks went from many per release to zero or one, so it was a great impact. On my personal account and the picks list, the volume declined precipitously. I have over $1100 in my personal account which has not happened in years.

BruiserB

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Re: Loan Information Asymmetrical Timing
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2014, 11:39:51 AM »
On the whole loan side, my picks went from many per release to zero or one, so it was a great impact. On my personal account and the picks list, the volume declined precipitously. I have over $1100 in my personal account which has not happened in years.

Yea, that's significant.  Hmm.  Seems odd to me, because the loans P2P-Picks chooses seem quite different than I would get using any kind of conventional filter.  I can't imagine people using Lending Club's Automated Investing are clamoring for the same loans your service chooses.  Also does Lending Club even offer a version of Automated Investing on the whole loan side? 

rawraw

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Re: Loan Information Asymmetrical Timing
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2014, 02:32:22 PM »
I'd be willing to bet most people are just trying to gobble up high interest rate notes indiscriminately. 

sociallender

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Re: Loan Information Asymmetrical Timing
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2014, 03:52:37 PM »
Quote
I'd be willing to bet most people are just trying to gobble up high interest rate notes indiscriminately.

My bet is most are using the LC cart or browse notes filtering (either manually or scripted).  The former requires cash drag (not good with my account), the latter uses a limited set of information and a lot of time (if manual).  In either case, I don't see any way to analyze loan information at the same time (or before) this happens.  Looks like I will be using scripted browse notes filtering (very tight saved filter) then fall back to loan analysis once the CSV/API is updated.

I sent a note to LC for explanation.  No response yet...  Hopefully this was not intended, and resolved soon.

brycemason

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Re: Loan Information Asymmetrical Timing
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2014, 05:14:55 PM »
A fundamental question is whether a note locked up in a shopping cart (which is fully funded) will even appear in a CSV/API call. You need that to be true in order to get the full credit variables for a future analysis.

sociallender

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Re: Loan Information Asymmetrical Timing
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2014, 06:47:31 PM »
Looks like the CSV delay is permanent (from Lending Club support):

Thank you for your email and interest in Lending Club. If you are using an API that gets loan information from the "Download All" in our Browse Notes tab, there is a small delay. The "Download All" information is updated once per minute rather than continuously. This is a permanent feature to allow equal access to the platform for all investors.

My question also asked about the API.  However, the response appears to be referencing the web site as the API (which doesn't make sense).  I replied with clarification regarding the API and will repost.  However, my own analysis confirms that the API is indeed delayed (I believe in sync with the CSV). 

I am trying to stay open minded about this whole thing.  However, I just don't see this as a viable solution.  Although the rules are the same for everyone, this is definitely not "equal" access to all investors.  If you are one type of investor, you get the front of the bus.  If you are another type, you get the back of the bus.  Just change your investor type and you get to the front of the bus.  Therefore, I believe most savvy investors are going to have to  change their investor type, and now we are all competing in much the same way we did before things changed.  Thus cutting out the so called "equal" access.  In addition, you now have to use the limited filtering LC provides or use the cart hole. 

Ugghhh.  I wonder if it's time to make the switch to Prosper?


 

sociallender

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Re: Loan Information Asymmetrical Timing
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2014, 06:59:07 PM »
Maybe off tangent but applicable:

Even if the API isn't delayed by content(which I believe it is), it is appears to be delayed in execution.  On average, the download time of the CSV file takes me about 4-6 seconds without throttle on repeat downloads.  Downloading the notes via API, appears to be about 5-10 seconds on first attempt.  Then up to a minute on repeat attempts.  Since there is no indicator on when the API is updated, you are forced to repeatedly download the CSV file.  Hence, migration from the API. 

brycemason

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Re: Loan Information Asymmetrical Timing
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2014, 08:03:20 PM »
I declare the API/CSV dead. Well, the API was always dead. But now it's like a zombie, infecting the CSV with its malaise. Dead and greyed, patchy flesh hands grasping at the last wisps of higher-interest borrowers as they run away from the pack, just out of reach.

Time to adjust.

BruiserB

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Loan Information Asymmetrical Timing
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2014, 11:06:43 PM »

Looks like the CSV delay is permanent (from Lending Club support):

Thank you for your email and interest in Lending Club. If you are using an API that gets loan information from the "Download All" in our Browse Notes tab, there is a small delay. The "Download All" information is updated once per minute rather than continuously. This is a permanent feature to allow equal access to the platform for all investors.

My question also asked about the API.  However, the response appears to be referencing the web site as the API (which doesn't make sense).  I replied with clarification regarding the API and will repost.  However, my own analysis confirms that the API is indeed delayed (I believe in sync with the CSV). 

I am trying to stay open minded about this whole thing.  However, I just don't see this as a viable solution.  Although the rules are the same for everyone, this is definitely not "equal" access to all investors.  If you are one type of investor, you get the front of the bus.  If you are another type, you get the back of the bus.  Just change your investor type and you get to the front of the bus.  Therefore, I believe most savvy investors are going to have to  change their investor type, and now we are all competing in much the same way we did before things changed.  Thus cutting out the so called "equal" access.  In addition, you now have to use the limited filtering LC provides or use the cart hole. 

Ugghhh.  I wonder if it's time to make the switch to Prosper?

But what "type" of investor is getting front of bus access?  Feels like we're all at the back now.....clearly someone is up front, but if the only way to get there is to screen-scrape or throw everything in your cart and sort it out later, then this clearly can't be the "equal" access Lending Club says they're trying to provide.  I hope Lending Club knows we're all watching carefully and this doesn't seem like a good time to p!$$ off those of us who have gotten them to this stage of their development.

I was getting frustrated with trying to keep my funds invested near the end of last year and had about given up.  Early this year I discovered third party automation and am thankful for the efforts of Bryce, Nathan, Emmanuel, and others.  I actually more than doubled my investment in Lending Club since discovering these tools!  If Lending Club makes it impossible for these services to function, then I'll be right back where I was late last year.....considering throwing in the towel.   I hope someone from Lending Club is paying attention!


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