Author Topic: FolioFN Return Calculation!!!!!!!  (Read 19325 times)

GS

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Re: FolioFN Return Calculation!!!!!!!
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2014, 08:17:14 PM »
I can see my interest received data by expanding the "Payments" sections  on the same page.

hoggy1

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Re: FolioFN Return Calculation!!!!!!!
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2014, 09:31:23 PM »

Cash drag also takes into account time till fund, notes that get rejected and have to be reinvested, etc.  All of which are part of the investment

Now LC fees and delays in investment are properly included ...
rawraw, thats exactly what I said above. But whether I choose to keep an excess $40k in my LC account or in my checking account is immaterial. All that should matter is money invested from the day it is no longer available for withdrawal (cash) till the day it is again withdrawable (cash).
« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 09:37:00 PM by hoggy1 »
Steve

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Re: FolioFN Return Calculation!!!!!!!
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2014, 09:55:56 PM »
Are you sharing your FolioFn stats?

Sure, this is from one account:

Ran

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Re: FolioFN Return Calculation!!!!!!!
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2014, 08:39:40 AM »
I think there are some problems with LC's Trade Note ANAR calculation. I buy and hold Folio notes, half of which are Late 16 or 31+ notes when I bought them. My XIRR is ~40% for >$50k invested in Folio notes. On Thursday when LC's calculation first came out my Trade Note ANAR showed 22% and today shows -8%. But my XIRR barely changed in the last 2 days. Clearly LC is doing something wrong.
I think LC are shooting themselves on feet when they are doing principal/interest accounting and amortization stuff. They should have gone XIRR's route, etc., calculating returns based on bank transactions(deposit and withdraws) and end of period account market value. It's simple and clear and is actually what investors really care about at the end of the day. Just like operating a fund, when you report fund return, you should not report stock/bond return, but how much money the fund investors pooled together and how much the fund is worth today.  If cash is not invested but held in LC account, it's still part of investment earning 0% ANAR return, plain and simple.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 08:41:25 AM by Ran »

hoggy1

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Re: FolioFN Return Calculation!!!!!!!
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2014, 09:03:19 AM »


That is correct (nothing to do with XIRR) and screenshots to better explain.

MISSING LINK
I used the "View and customize adjustment" link to reach the adjustment page below. But now when I turn the adjustments on it displays :Adjusted values reflect custom assumptions for past-due notes, and not Lending Club estimates" BUT THE LINK IS GONE. I can't get back to alter them further.
Steve

SBryantMS

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Re: FolioFN Return Calculation!!!!!!!
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2014, 09:14:53 AM »


That is correct (nothing to do with XIRR) and screenshots to better explain.

MISSING LINK
I used the "View and customize adjustment" link to reach the adjustment page below. But now when I turn the adjustments on it displays :Adjusted values reflect custom assumptions for past-due notes, and not Lending Club estimates" BUT THE LINK IS GONE. I can't get back to alter them further.

This is called Agile Development -- The IT department throws some crap out on the webpage -- then use customers as unpaid testers of the code.  Only way something gets changed (I did not say fixed) is to complain.  The new IT development model -- short sprints -- fall down -- repeat.  IMO, expect crap to appear regularly -- if you don't like the smell complain.   

hoggy1

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Re: FolioFN Return Calculation!!!!!!!
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2014, 09:33:19 AM »


That is correct (nothing to do with XIRR) and screenshots to better explain.

MISSING LINK
I used the "View and customize adjustment" link to reach the adjustment page below. But now when I turn the adjustments on it displays :Adjusted values reflect custom assumptions for past-due notes, and not Lending Club estimates" BUT THE LINK IS GONE. I can't get back to alter them further.

This is called Agile Development -- The IT department throws some crap out on the webpage -- then use customers as unpaid testers of the code.  Only way something gets changed (I did not say fixed) is to complain.  The new IT development model -- short sprints -- fall down -- repeat.  IMO, expect crap to appear regularly -- if you don't like the smell complain.

Have you seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM5DrvOjQn0

I agree. But I know Agile Development and Extreme Programing. I have worked in both environments but the releases still had to go through testing and release review. I think they still have a few organizational holes to fill.

Can anyone give me the URL to get to the adjustment page before it disappears for everyone (except for the HTML jockeys who can always find anything)?
Steve

Rob L

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Re: FolioFN Return Calculation!!!!!!!
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2014, 10:43:56 AM »
MISSING LINK
I used the "View and customize adjustment" link to reach the adjustment page below. But now when I turn the adjustments on it displays :Adjusted values reflect custom assumptions for past-due notes, and not Lending Club estimates" BUT THE LINK IS GONE. I can't get back to alter them further.

Should anyone wonder, the link shaded in red is now missing whether I view Primary, Traded or Combined:



PeerSocialLending

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Re: FolioFN Return Calculation!!!!!!!
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2014, 10:47:33 AM »
And the changes keep rolling in. No more custom adjustments...



« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 10:49:09 AM by PeerSocialLending »
-Ryan
p2p lending blogger @ www.peersociallending.com

Rob L

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Re: FolioFN Return Calculation!!!!!!!
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2014, 12:11:20 PM »
And the changes keep rolling in. No more custom adjustments...

Actually it's still using my custom adjustments.
I no longer have the ability to switch to / from the LC defaults nor modify my custom adjustments.
Think they'll probably just bring back the link, but who knows.

SBryantMS

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Re: FolioFN Return Calculation!!!!!!!
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2014, 12:19:27 PM »


That is correct (nothing to do with XIRR) and screenshots to better explain.

MISSING LINK
I used the "View and customize adjustment" link to reach the adjustment page below. But now when I turn the adjustments on it displays :Adjusted values reflect custom assumptions for past-due notes, and not Lending Club estimates" BUT THE LINK IS GONE. I can't get back to alter them further.

This is called Agile Development -- The IT department throws some crap out on the webpage -- then use customers as unpaid testers of the code.  Only way something gets changed (I did not say fixed) is to complain.  The new IT development model -- short sprints -- fall down -- repeat.  IMO, expect crap to appear regularly -- if you don't like the smell complain.

Have you seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM5DrvOjQn0

I agree. But I know Agile Development and Extreme Programing. I have worked in both environments but the releases still had to go through testing and release review. I think they still have a few organizational holes to fill.

Can anyone give me the URL to get to the adjustment page before it disappears for everyone (except for the HTML jockeys who can always find anything)?

Based on my three years as a "customer" of Lending Club -- I don't think they have a  "testing and release review" process as I see it. 

Everything is crap when first released to the customer.  We ARE the testing department. 

I have also seen bugs reappear when new "changes" are implemented which leads me to believe that they do not have a robust "release control" process.

core

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Re: FolioFN Return Calculation!!!!!!!
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2014, 08:28:30 PM »
Ok, so the link is gone.  Presumably everyone had their settings exactly where they wanted them.  So what are we so mad about here?  The fact that you can't change it to settings that you don't want? :)

Anyway here is the link.  It still appears to function fine.
https://www.lendingclub.com/account/investorReturnsAdjustments.action

During today's cowboy coding, what they certainly did not fix is the limit.  It is still stuck at 100%.  By the way I have no problem with cowboy coding in a production environment.  That's the way I've always done it.  Usually while polishing off a case of Bud Light in the office at my desk, too.  Customers liked the fast changes.  It seemed to piss off other employees though, especially customer support who were taken by surprise.  Too bad for them.  Then again I was not working in finance... big difference.  Also I do not make mistakes.  Well except for that one time when an Oracle cascading delete took me by surprise.  That was a two case job that night to restore stuff.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 08:37:01 PM by core »

Rob L

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Re: FolioFN Return Calculation!!!!!!!
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2014, 09:25:44 PM »
Ok, so the link is gone.  Presumably everyone had their settings exactly where they wanted them.  So what are we so mad about here?  The fact that you can't change it to settings that you don't want? :)

Actually I'm just fine without being able to change it; or for that matter not having ANAR at all. Just bells and whistles.
If they don't bring back the link I'll get over it.

hoggy1

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Re: FolioFN Return Calculation!!!!!!!
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2014, 08:39:19 AM »
\They should have gone XIRR's route, etc., calculating returns based on bank transactions(deposit and withdraws) and end of period account market value. It's simple and clear and is actually what investors really care about at the end of the day. Just like operating a fund, when you report fund return, you should not report stock/bond return, but how much money the fund investors pooled together and how much the fund is worth today.  If cash is not invested but held in LC account, it's still part of investment earning 0% ANAR return, plain and simple.

I disagree at least in part. Our LC accounts are different than a fund. A fund is managed by a third party and their choice to hold cash A) is nothing to do with my choices as an individual and B) certainly does affect my returns on the investment in that fund. That is not the case with self directed P2P accounts.

Let me put this case to you: Two LC investors hold precisely the same collection of 1000 loans, worth $20,000. One has $0 cash balance and the other has $10,000 cash in his account that he will use next month to pay for Junior's tuition. They both have the same investment and both will have the same return on that investment. The cash held by the one is a non-investment which he individually has chosen to maintain. The return on his investment is unaffected by his decision.
 
Now Core correctly pointed out a possible exception as it applies to him. If, in an actively traded account, large cash balances are required to execute the trading strategy (i.e. if the cash wasn't there, there would be no money making opportunity) then that cash is integral to the investment and should be included in return calculations.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 09:35:36 AM by hoggy1 »
Steve

Ran

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Re: FolioFN Return Calculation!!!!!!!
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2014, 11:46:44 AM »
\They should have gone XIRR's route, etc., calculating returns based on bank transactions(deposit and withdraws) and end of period account market value. It's simple and clear and is actually what investors really care about at the end of the day. Just like operating a fund, when you report fund return, you should not report stock/bond return, but how much money the fund investors pooled together and how much the fund is worth today.  If cash is not invested but held in LC account, it's still part of investment earning 0% ANAR return, plain and simple.

I disagree at least in part. Our LC accounts are different than a fund. A fund is managed by a third party and their choice to hold cash A) is nothing to do with my choices as an individual and B) certainly does affect my returns on the investment in that fund. That is not the case with self directed P2P accounts.

Let me put this case to you: Two LC investors hold precisely the same collection of 1000 loans, worth $20,000. One has $0 cash balance and the other has $10,000 cash in his account that he will use next month to pay for Junior's tuition. They both have the same investment and both will have the same return on that investment. The cash held by the one is a non-investment which he individually has chosen to maintain. The return on his investment is unaffected by his decision.
 
Now Core correctly pointed out a possible exception as it applies to him. If, in an actively traded account, large cash balances are required to execute the trading strategy (i.e. if the cash wasn't there, there would be no money making opportunity) then that cash is integral to the investment and should be included in return calculations.

This argument is not strong. Why would someone spend 5 business days to deposit $10k, sit there at 0% interest for 15 days, then spend another 5 business days to withdraw? The only reason someone puts money in LC is to invest and the money should count since money in LC has no another options available. This is opportunity cost, and why people demand interest for US treasury notes even it's risk free.