Author Topic: "Own" & N/A  (Read 15307 times)

JoeB

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"Own" & N/A
« on: October 27, 2014, 03:51:26 PM »
Is it me or has anyone else noticed that more loans are coming through with 'job title' and 'length of employment' as N/A? I thought that they may be retired people but their earliest credit line doesn't support that. Are they unemployed, dead-beats, still in school??

Has anyone also noticed that 'OWN' is just a meaningless choice as most don't own. I've noticed that people with their earliest credit line is 2011 and they "OWN" their homes. This is a lie assuming an earliest credit line is at the point of someone being 18 years old  I seriously doubt that a 21 year old OWNS their own home. This is just a way for the applicant to trump up their credit app with something that is not verifiable.

I avoid N/A and 'OWN' loans.
Best to all,

JB

Fred

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Re: "Own" & N/A
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2014, 10:36:52 PM »
I avoid ... 'OWN' loans.

Care to share your data for this?

Here is mine:

lascott

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Re: "Own" & N/A
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2014, 12:27:34 AM »
Makes me wonder if some borrowers are also misusing the "own" term and think that they bought it so they "own" it even if the bank still has the mortgage loan.  I've seen some "own" defaults relative to "mortgage" on peercube historical analysis recently that made me question the "own" variable/value.
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core

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Re: "Own" & N/A
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2014, 01:22:57 AM »
I've noticed that people with their earliest credit line is 2011 and they "OWN" their homes. This is a lie assuming an earliest credit line is at the point of someone being 18 years old  I seriously doubt that a 21 year old OWNS their own home.

Here we are back again on that "earliest credit line" thing.  You are basing your whole argument on this.  I say once again, there is no such field in any CRA report.  I would kind of like to hear some answers on this one way or another.  In other words, I would honestly welcome being proven wrong.  Because then, I'm going after TransUnion for FCRA violations for small $$$ as a consumer.  This is the kind of thing that would effect enough investors to be worthy of an emailed question.  Be sure to ask your friendly account rep what happens to that date when a hard INQ shows up on TU without a tradeline for that year. 

rawraw

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Re: "Own" & N/A
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2014, 06:13:53 AM »
Don't the credit reports have the date have the line is opened?  I assumed it just took the min of all those dates.  I'd have to have a credit report in front of me to confirm

core

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Re: "Own" & N/A
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2014, 06:27:13 AM »
Don't the credit reports have the date have the line is opened?  I assumed it just took the min of all those dates.  I'd have to have a credit report in front of me to confirm

Yes.  But as I said in the other thread, trade lines drop off after they have been closed for 10 years.  So a person who has been "unbanked" for a long while (like I was) may show a very recent date even if his earliest credit line was 30 years ago.  Also creditors don't always correctly submit closed status to the CRAs.  I've had zombie lines on my report for years.

rawraw

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Re: Re: "Own" & N/A
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2014, 06:46:13 AM »
Don't the credit reports have the date have the line is opened?  I assumed it just took the min of all those dates.  I'd have to have a credit report in front of me to confirm

Yes.  But as I said in the other thread, trade lines drop off after they have been closed for 10 years.  So a person who has been "unbanked" for a long while (like I was) may show a very recent date even if his earliest credit line was 30 years ago.  Also creditors don't always correctly submit closed status to the CRAs.  I've had zombie lines on my report for years.
Ohhh I see what your saying. I'm not old enough to see closed lines fall off yet, didn't know they did

core

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Re: Re: "Own" & N/A
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2014, 06:56:09 AM »
I'm not old enough to see closed lines fall off yet

Wow rawraw, you're not even 28?  I didn't know you were such a youngster. 

Yes, they fall off which is why it's very important to manage your average age of accounts and dates on all your accounts in general.  Closing that Victoria's Secret card that you've been hiding from your wife, even though you don't use it anymore, could have bad consequences for your FICO score.  But not until 10 years from now.  This is of course ignoring %util.

But I know someone's going to come back and say, "But, there's this one guy with an earliest line of 1944!".  It could be a credit card he's had open for 70 years.  Or it could be a line that was never reported as closed, company long since gone out of business.   Only those with access to his TU credit report can say.  But that does NOT prove anything as far as what 'earliest line' means.

rawraw

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Re: Re: Re: "Own" & N/A
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2014, 07:07:39 AM »
I'm not old enough to see closed lines fall off yet

Wow rawraw, you're not even 28?  I didn't know you were such a youngster. 

Yes, they fall off which is why it's very important to manage your average age of accounts and dates on all your accounts in general.  Closing that Victoria's Secret card that you've been hiding from your wife, even though you don't use it anymore, could have bad consequences for your FICO score.  But not until 10 years from now.  This is of course ignoring %util.

But I know someone's going to come back and say, "But, there's this one guy with an earliest line of 1944!".  It could be a credit card he's had open for 70 years.  Or it could be a line that was never reported as closed, company long since gone out of business.   Only those with access to his TU credit report can say.  But that does NOT prove anything as far as what 'earliest line' means.
Yep I'm a youngster on these boards. And appreciate the insight! Transunion I think is the one that still gets the age of colisted cards. I have one line on my report which exceeds my age because it's my father's line.

core

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Re: Re: Re: "Own" & N/A
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2014, 07:13:28 AM »
Transunion I think is the one that still gets the age of colisted cards. I have one line on my report which exceeds my age because it's my father's line.

Good point.  Authorized users seriously screw up the dates.  But the reporting of such is up to the creditor, not the CRA.  That reminds me... Amex backdates on subsequent cards, even for AUs until recently.  Reality could be way off.

JoeB

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Re: "Own" & N/A
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2014, 08:28:11 AM »
I avoid ... 'OWN' loans.

Care to share your data for this?

Here is mine:


Fred,

You're over analyzing this. I didn't say OWN loans are under performing. All I stated was that I feel there is reason not to believe all OWN loans actually OWN.

Let's say a borrower is 25 and states 'OWN' even though he lives with his parents or rents. His pool of lenders is larger than by saying 'other' or 'rent'. He looks stronger on paper by OWNING and no one can prove he doesn't because there is no FICO notation for OWNING but there is for a mortgage.

It's possible this chap can OWN:
https://www.lendingclub.com/browse/loanDetail.action?loan_id=32359757&previous=browse

It's unlikely IMHO, that these loans OWN:
https://www.lendingclub.com/browse/loanDetail.action?loan_id=31167216&previous=browse
https://www.lendingclub.com/browse/loanDetail.action?loan_id=32348994&previous=browse
https://www.lendingclub.com/browse/loanDetail.action?loan_id=33110683&previous=browse

Earliest credit line (recent within last 0-7 yrs) with open and total credit lines (both single digit) just doesn't add up for me and that's all I'm saying.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 09:08:10 AM by JoeB »
Best to all,

JB

Fred

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Re: "Own" & N/A
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2014, 10:43:27 AM »
All I stated was that I feel there is reason not to believe all OWN loans actually OWN.

Well, if you based your investment decisions on feelings ....

JoeB

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Re: "Own" & N/A
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2014, 12:12:53 PM »
All I stated was that I feel there is reason not to believe all OWN loans actually OWN.

Well, if you based your investment decisions on feelings ....

Once again, you're over analyzing things. "Feel" is a generalization and most would not take it in the manner in which you commented. It's a common sense approach but you know what they say about common sense; it's uncommon today.

I'm sure you'll find a graph of some sorts to post but when an earliest credit line is 2010 and they have 5 'open lines' and 9 'total lines'; to me, common sense would dictate that it would be highly unlikely that they actually "OWN". Of course, there can be exceptions but I'm merely trying to point out that "OWN" is a provision for deceit and a field that some can and do take advantage of.
Best to all,

JB

Fred

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Re: "Own" & N/A
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2014, 01:59:02 PM »
Also creditors don't always correctly submit closed status to the CRAs.

FTFY
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rawraw

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Re: "Own" & N/A
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2014, 06:50:22 PM »
Sounds like a little bit of a pointless battle.  When do you "own" the house?  At down payment?  At LTV of 49%? I would assume owning gives you less flexibility during financial hiccups (and reduces the occurrences of housing related hiccups)