Author Topic: Funded Amount?  (Read 12049 times)

Fred93

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2247
    • View Profile
Re: Funded Amount?
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2014, 03:39:12 PM »
Per LC 10-Q:

Quote
In the third quarter of 2014, our marketplace facilitated nearly $1.2 billion in loan originations, of which approximately:
1. $0.2 billion were invested in through notes issued pursuant to the Note Registration Statement,
2. $0.3 billion were invested in through certificates issued by the Trust and
3. $0.5 billion were invested in through whole loan sales.

It seems certificates and whole loans are mutually exclusive.

And its funny that 0.2+0.3+0.5 does not add up to 1.2  :o

I don't claim to understand the terminology that their accountants are using in the 10Q paragraph you quoted 100%. 

I don't think I'm supposed to quote the trust document (and I'm not energetic enough to read everything again to find the sentence I vaguely remember to figure out for sure), so I'd suggest you call up LCA and get your own copy of the documents, where you can read about what they do.


Quote
It is clear that the notes were only 8% of the total, which is very depressing.

Keep in mind that as LC branches out ... policy 2 loans, small business loans, god-knows-what loans ... it becomes more and more difficult to use published numbers to compute ratios such as this.   The fractional market (notes) only accesses one kind of loans.  LC publishes totals in their 10Q and doesn't break the numbers out by type of loan.

There's lots we don't know.  For example, are the whole loans sold thru the certificate channel shown in the data files we can download?   Maybe not, eh?

There's a chart on nickelsteamroller which shows the breakdown of LC loans between "whole", "fractional, and "other".  It claims that 23% of the loans are going to the fractional marketplace.  I don't understand the source of their data.  The history files don't appear (to me) to show anything other than "w" and "f", so the NSR guys must be milking this information out in some mysterious way.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 03:41:27 PM by Fred93 »

Fred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1421
    • View Profile
Re: Funded Amount?
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2014, 03:52:21 PM »
Per LC 10-Q:

Quote
In the third quarter of 2014, our marketplace facilitated nearly $1.2 billion in loan originations, of which approximately:
1. $0.2 billion were invested in through notes issued pursuant to the Note Registration Statement,
2. $0.3 billion were invested in through certificates issued by the Trust and
3. $0.5 billion were invested in through whole loan sales.

It seems certificates and whole loans are mutually exclusive.

And its funny that 0.2+0.3+0.5 does not add up to 1.2  :o

Ha ha ... you're right.  Between my eyes failing me, and my wife calling me to leave for shopping, I was a bit lazy to check and simply cut-and-paste:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1409970/000119312514414075/d766811ds1a.htm

I'll see if there are better numbers in their filings to show this.

Fred93

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2247
    • View Profile
Re: Funded Amount?
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2014, 03:57:42 PM »
I am trying to understand how newly listed notes could have the majority of the loan fully funded immediately after being listed?  I poll the API every second  (abiding by the 1 second rule) until new notes are listed.

***  Which API?  CSV?  Old SOAP API?  New REST API?
***  And are you asking to see all loans, or just the "new" loans?

You are polling 1/second, but how long does it take for you to finish the data transfer?  Back when I was testing the SOAP API I found that it could take a damn long time for the data transfer to complete, and I found that this was highly sensitive to one's internet connection speed.  (This was so even tho only a tiny fraction of available speed was used.)  I believe this was due to a poorly configured server.  (Deep subject, which I won't elaborate on here, 'cause I'd be typing all afternoon.)  I learned that to go fast you need a high speed internet connection and to use the "new loans only" version of the API.

Now they improved things after my comments, and I sorta wore myself out with all that effort, so I never got back to this to test after their changes, and I have never tried the new API, so things might be different now, I dunno.

I am wondering whether you are operating at a disadvantage because your data transfer takes too long.



avid investor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 170
    • View Profile
Re: Funded Amount?
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2014, 04:43:46 PM »
I am trying to understand how newly listed notes could have the majority of the loan fully funded immediately after being listed?  I poll the API every second  (abiding by the 1 second rule) until new notes are listed.
I learned that to go fast you need a high speed internet connection and to use the "new loans only" version of the API.

Fred, do you know how long a note is considered a "new loan"?  As we have discussed ad nauseum, loans ARE dropped at times other than the scheduled golden moments (which currently seem to give us only a hand full).  If a loan is considered a "new loan" for only a few minutes of time, then pulling only the "new loans" down at the designated times will mean that you won't include these loans.  Any thoughts on that?

sociallender

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 273
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Funded Amount?
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2014, 04:50:27 PM »
I am trying to understand how newly listed notes could have the majority of the loan fully funded immediately after being listed?  I poll the API every second  (abiding by the 1 second rule) until new notes are listed.

***  Which API?  CSV?  Old SOAP API?  New REST API?
***  And are you asking to see all loans, or just the "new" loans?

You are polling 1/second, but how long does it take for you to finish the data transfer?  Back when I was testing the SOAP API I found that it could take a damn long time for the data transfer to complete, and I found that this was highly sensitive to one's internet connection speed.  (This was so even tho only a tiny fraction of available speed was used.)  I believe this was due to a poorly configured server.  (Deep subject, which I won't elaborate on here, 'cause I'd be typing all afternoon.)  I learned that to go fast you need a high speed internet connection and to use the "new loans only" version of the API.

Now they improved things after my comments, and I sorta wore myself out with all that effort, so I never got back to this to test after their changes, and I have never tried the new API, so things might be different now, I dunno.

I am wondering whether you are operating at a disadvantage because your data transfer takes too long.


Using the new restful API on new loans only (not all loans as it would take considerably longer).  Typically takes between .7 to 1.5 seconds between sequential API calls.  On average around 1 second.  Coincidentally, when API calls are less than a second, I have not noticed any denial from LC servers.  Here is the elapsed time in seconds between successive calls taken recently which all responded successfully even though some were less than a second apart:

   user  system elapsed
   0.04    0.00    0.77
   user  system elapsed
   0.01    0.00    0.72
   user  system elapsed
   0.03    0.02    0.76
   user  system elapsed
   0.07    0.00    1.22
   user  system elapsed
   0.04    0.00    0.79
   user  system elapsed
   0.02    0.00    0.89
   user  system elapsed
   0.04    0.00    0.91
   user  system elapsed
   0.04    0.00    0.87
   user  system elapsed
   0.01    0.00    0.69
   user  system elapsed
   0.05    0.00    0.79
   user  system elapsed
   0.01    0.00    0.74

It is a little bit longer during feeding times but not by much.  Again, average of around a second.  So, at least every second I poll the RESTful API for new notes only.  If they do not contain any previous notes, then listing has been completed (although listing can take longer for it to complete for all notes and some could be added at a later point).  However, the notes that I do capture (even if listing has not completed) are majority funded for "popular" notes. 

I thought it could be a speed issue as well, but odds are that by now I would have by chance polled the API at the optimal time, but yet no significant change in initial funding.  I still am investigating by my gut tells me that the notes are being funded prior to list.  Or perhaps captured by local/on-premise technology?.  MarinBB seems to be experiencing the same problem but I would like confirmation from others for a sanity check.

Fred93

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2247
    • View Profile
Re: Funded Amount?
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2014, 05:04:03 PM »
Fred, do you know how long a note is considered a "new loan"?

When I talked with LC folks about this, their story was that "new" means "the current batch".  They tend to think from their end, not from our end, so in the past there have been many ill-defined concepts, so I don't know what this means except for what they said.  Their view is that loans are deposited by them in batches at the feeding times AND NEVER AT ANY OTHER TIME.  I haven't done more recent testing, so I'm not giving an opinion, just restating incoming info.

Quote
As we have discussed ad nauseum, loans ARE dropped at times other than the scheduled golden moments (which currently seem to give us only a hand full).

The LC guys view is that they drop at the specified times.  They didn't seem to be counting things like the loans that roll over from the whole-loan marketplace.  Those loans look "new" to me, as I've never seen them before, but LC guys think from their end, not from my end, so we use words differently.

Quote
If a loan is considered a "new loan" for only a few minutes of time, then pulling only the "new loans" down at the designated times will mean that you won't include these loans. 

I can only tell you what they told me.  I haven't experimentally tested the "new loan" stuff, nor have I tested the new API yet, so I'd be guessing.  When I asked questions like this they seemed to say things like ... well they're new until the next batch at the next feeding time.  What that means exactly to a person writing code at our end, I have no idea. 

I tried when I was talking with them to suggest a different API scheme in which there was no ambiguity about what "new" meant.  I was suggesting things like "gimme the 2PM batch" to which they could respond "not here yet dude" or else give me a batch of loans.  Looking from their end, they didn't seem to have the appreciation for the ambiguities related to time that I saw, and perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough.

I will be experimenting with the new API soon, so later I may have opinions about all these questions.  The absurd observations seen by sociallender are interesting as heck and are drawing me in.

GS

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 413
    • View Profile
Re: Funded Amount?
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2014, 05:06:40 PM »
It kinda sucks that from I'm seeing, it looks like individual investors are only getting about 25% of the loans, and the ones we do get are half funded before we even see them ...  Come on LC ...

Fred93

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2247
    • View Profile
Re: Funded Amount?
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2014, 05:13:11 PM »
So, at least every second I poll the RESTful API for new notes only.  If they do not contain any previous notes, then listing has been completed (although listing can take longer for it to complete for all notes and some could be added at a later point).  However, the notes that I do capture (even if listing has not completed) are majority funded for "popular" notes. 

Thank you.  That's very clear.  So your "less than 1 second" includes the download of the new loans in its entirety, so your data is very fresh, and yet loans are already heavily invested.

    Astounding.

Does this happen every feeding time, or just some?

[begin speculation]
Now I'm wondering about the architecture of LC's servers.  Likely they have more than one server, and perhaps different servers get the data at slightly different times.

Suggest you begin recording IP address of server you're talking with on each hit.  Once you start using one particular server you probably stick with it for a long time due to DNS caching.  You might experiment by flushing your DNS cache between hits, so you can learn more about how many servers they have, and whether some behave differently. 
[end speculation]

avid investor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 170
    • View Profile
Re: Funded Amount?
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2014, 05:22:19 PM »
Coincidentally, when API calls are less than a second, I have not noticed any denial from LC servers.  Here is the elapsed time in seconds between successive calls taken recently which all responded successfully even though some were less than a second apart:

I can address that one.  When I first went up on the new restful API, I wasn't putting any time between requests (yes, I ignored the rule).  The rule existed for the XML interface, and never triggered a failure, so I figured it was worth a try.  It must have just been slower, ergo no failures.

With the new API, however, I would get 6, 8, 10 loans and then the process would just hang and not return.  I put in timeouts in the interface, to avoid the hanging.  I never did get the http 500 error that the documentation said I would get, but then I found numerous issues with the documentation so I just shrugged it off.  After forcing the the 1-second delay, however, it never hung again.  So, it doesn't surprise me that you would be processing at a rate faster than one-per-second and not getting "caught" at it, as I was able to do the same, at least when doing "gets".  The "posts", as I said, would work for awhile before they through the yellow flag.  I suspect that they are managing it over time.  As in 4 POST transactions in 3 seconds might be fine, but 12 transactions in 10 seconds - maybe not.

Lovinglifestyle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 902
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Funded Amount?
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2014, 05:40:00 PM »
This conversation is way beyond me, but I just want to say I picked up 6 new notes at 0% funding at the 2/3:00 feed.  Viewing the cart 3 sec. later had 2 closing and the others 40-80% along.

avid investor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 170
    • View Profile
Re: Funded Amount?
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2014, 05:44:05 PM »
Ok, so I just ran a test.  Had to open up my filters to get higher-grade, lower-interest B's than I usually want, but I changed my linux usleep to 250000 (1/4 of a second) between POST transactions.  Funded 4 notes in less than 2 seconds.  There's definitely either a little more tolerance (as in maybe 2 transactions/sec?) or a measuring of throughput of a higher number of transactions over a period of time, as I previously surmised.

sociallender

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 273
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Funded Amount?
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2014, 06:00:18 PM »
This conversation is way beyond me, but I just want to say I picked up 6 new notes at 0% funding at the 2/3:00 feed.  Viewing the cart 3 sec. later had 2 closing and the others 40-80% along.

Hmmm... Interesting...

Attached are the notes I picked up at 2014-11-30 14:00:11 PST.  Can you have a look to see if the notes you were able to fund are included and the corresponding percent funded (I added this column)?  There will still be unanswered questions but maybe it will give us a bit more insight.

Well just realized I can't attach a CSV file.  Here is a link:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/415842/csv/new_notes.csv

sociallender

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 273
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Funded Amount?
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2014, 06:47:49 PM »
So, at least every second I poll the RESTful API for new notes only.  If they do not contain any previous notes, then listing has been completed (although listing can take longer for it to complete for all notes and some could be added at a later point).  However, the notes that I do capture (even if listing has not completed) are majority funded for "popular" notes. 

Thank you.  That's very clear.  So your "less than 1 second" includes the download of the new loans in its entirety, so your data is very fresh, and yet loans are already heavily invested.

    Astounding.

Does this happen every feeding time, or just some?

[begin speculation]
Now I'm wondering about the architecture of LC's servers.  Likely they have more than one server, and perhaps different servers get the data at slightly different times.

Suggest you begin recording IP address of server you're talking with on each hit.  Once you start using one particular server you probably stick with it for a long time due to DNS caching.  You might experiment by flushing your DNS cache between hits, so you can learn more about how many servers they have, and whether some behave differently. 
[end speculation]

Yes, it happens every feeding time.  I will give your suggestion a try and let you know.  However, I would hope that their server farm would be configured similarly.

core

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1790
  • Your loss is my gain
    • View Profile
Re: Funded Amount?
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2014, 07:03:33 PM »
Look for "ECS" and an alphanumeric ID or anything else strange in the Server: header or X- headers.  I'd check myself but I refuse to sign that API agreement.  The IP won't tell you anything in a reverse proxy situation as it will always look the same from your end.  But if you want to look at IPs for whatever reason, it would be easier to dump all the relevant 'A' records first from their nameserver and hit them directly in an orderly manner by IP rather than monkeying with DNS cache and trial&error. 
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 07:07:37 PM by core »

Lovinglifestyle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 902
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Funded Amount?
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2014, 08:27:51 PM »
This conversation is way beyond me, but I just want to say I picked up 6 new notes at 0% funding at the 2/3:00 feed.  Viewing the cart 3 sec. later had 2 closing and the others 40-80% along.

Hmmm... Interesting...

Attached are the notes I picked up at 2014-11-30 14:00:11 PST.  Can you have a look to see if the notes you were able to fund are included and the corresponding percent funded (I added this column)?  There will still be unanswered questions but maybe it will give us a bit more insight.

Well just realized I can't attach a CSV file.  Here is a link:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/415842/csv/new_notes.csv

I'm sorry, if they were there I just couldn't find them.  They weren't what I wanted after they were in my cart so I let them go.  However, I do have some loan numbers if that's of any interest:

36169416
19466180
36371234
36441184
36381241
36381241
36221299
36360733 (did not show up on Int. Radar nor PeerCube)
36490477

Two of those must have snuck in from the 10/11AM or 6/7AM feed, but I don't know which ones because I tossed all of them back.
That's why there are 8 numbers here but only 6 are from 2/3:00PM.  Also, I have no way of knowing what the % funded status was.  I could write that down another time.  Again--sorry for your trouble.  I'm pretty useless at this sort of thing!