Author Topic: good news finally  (Read 10490 times)

fliphusker

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Re: good news finally
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2016, 10:40:10 PM »
  You do not demand that at MGM Grand that you get a quarter of your money back on a loss at roulette, do you?

Are you seriously comparing LC investments with gambling at Las Vegas? I've got to assume you wrote that with a little tongue in cheek. ;)

I do not kid around when I make a gambling analogy.  :)
How much can you lose on your investment in LC?  Everything?  You knew this going in, right?  2008 opened up my eyes to this possibility. 
Your odds are just better here that you will not lose your investment, than if you went to Vegas.  How many investments pay over 4% and do not carry some risk of potentially losing it all?

fliphusker

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Re: good news finally
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2016, 10:42:52 PM »
We want a BRV. But it will never happen because they don't give a damn about us.

Not going to worry about a BRV, if I did, I would be cashing out of FOLIO right now.  Sure there are some here who have hit that panic button and cashing out with big discounts to boot -- talk about BRV. 
It is not a deal breaker, as LC did not have a BRV in place when I invested here.  So not going to tell LC to change the rules of the game in my favor.  You do not demand that at MGM Grand that you get a quarter of your money back on a loss at roulette, do you?

We note owners are unsecured creditors of unsecured creditors. LC has changed plenty of rules mid-game but this isn't one of them. Are we being compensated for all that risk? I really don't know. Some think sure, that's what we signed on for and others think yeah but LC's prospects aren't as bright as they once seemed to be. Maybe take a few "chips off the table", or maybe I'll take them all. With our notes on LC's balance sheet owning them is only modestly different from owning LC stock (go ahead everyone and tell me how wrong headed that is). Both are ultimately a bet on LC's long term viability.
What rules have they changed?  As I am not one of the vets here, so curious by this.
Are you making the returns that you make here elsewhere? 

anabio

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Re: good news finally
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2016, 12:34:41 AM »
I do not kid around when I make a gambling analogy.  :)
How much can you lose on your investment in LC?  Everything?  You knew this going in, right?  2008 opened up my eyes to this possibility. 
Your odds are just better here that you will not lose your investment, than if you went to Vegas.  How many investments pay over 4% and do not carry some risk of potentially losing it all?

Yes, you can lose all your investment in LC, but let's have a little bit of reasonability (is that a word???) here. I think even if LC went bankrupt and had no assets and we were on the same level as other creditors...the odds of loosing it all are pretty remote. We would collect something...and I have to believe it would be a major part of our investment. we are talking billions of dollars of loans and LC doesn't have billions of dollars of debt...even a shareholder lawsuit coming down in 4-5 years would not anywhere near clean out those loan assets.

Yes I know and knew I could lose money...that's why the interest is higher than you would make in a bank. But I can't say I had or now have any worry that I would lose everything.

That said...just so you know, I stopped investing in notes in Jan of 2015 because my intuition told me something was amiss. Am letting my loan portfolio age out. Now down to under $7,000 of notes and will be 99% out in about 8 months. I agree with you that a recession (which I believe is coming) will cause havoc in the P2P loan world...but I never believed a recession would wipe out everything.

and...regarding the gambling analogy. I would never sit at a crap/blackjack table in Vegas and plop down $30,000 like I did with LC...and I don't believe you would either.
As Will Rogers stated: : I'm not as concerned about the return on my money as I am the return of my money

lender90530

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Re: good news finally
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2016, 04:47:29 AM »
Institutional investors and high net worth clients of LC Advisors have a BRV type structure in place to protect their interests. Don't know why LC doesn't give this protection to retail investors. Maybe most retail investors don't care or are unaware of the risks.

Half Right

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Re: good news finally
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2016, 10:55:46 AM »
Institutional investors and high net worth clients of LC Advisors have a BRV type structure in place to protect their interests. Don't know why LC doesn't give this protection to retail investors. Maybe most retail investors don't care or are unaware of the risks.
My understanding on the BRV in LC Advisors fund is that the entire note is bought by the fund allowing the "entire " note to go directly into a totally unrelated trust owned by the investors. i have not done prosper but I hear they have a BRV in place. Can someone quickly explain how that works, and is it only for whole notes or do fractional notes also work?

fliphusker

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Re: good news finally
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2016, 03:22:43 PM »
@anabio-I really do not know how a bankruptcy would effect things, and hope I never see it either.  I have just a sliver of concerns over it.  My investment strat changed simply because of the FOLIO market and deals there.  Once/if those deals dry up, will go back to normal investing in LC.  A recession coming just because they are cyclical or possibly over Brexit or politics or something else, is a possibility.  2-3% shaved off profits would make me frown, but not bail out.  I do see why others will/would though.  The gambler in me, or maybe naive. 
As far as letting it ride in Vegas, maybe if I was 21 and sitting at a good blackjack table.  :)

Rob L

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Re: good news finally
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2016, 11:00:02 PM »
What rules have they changed?  As I am not one of the vets here, so curious by this.
Are you making the returns that you make here elsewhere?

1) As for rules changes in the middle of the game read through the huge "Folio and IRA's" thread:
http://www.lendacademy.com/forum/index.php?topic=1674.0
You will quickly see LC has the power to change the game in a major way simply by fiat with no notification prior or otherwise. Total lack of transparency. But for decorum I'd use stronger language regarding the way this went down. It left a very bad taste in my mouth.

2) My Prosper returns have been quite good, but I can't directly compare them with LC as they are much higher grade / lower risk notes. My LC returns have been maybe a tad under 9% to date and Prosper at tad under 7%. My Prosper account was 1/3 the size of my LC account before I began cashing out of LC and now it's about 1/2.

Rob L

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Re: good news finally
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2016, 04:17:27 PM »
There is a 70% premium limit now. You can't list a note for sale for more than 1.70x of amount due on the note.

You also cannot list a note on Folio with a negative YTM now.
Two additional examples of LC changing the rules in the middle of the game by fiat.
You may think these two rules are a good thing or you may not. You may think they are trivial or important. That is incidental to my point. LC has and continues to make the rules up as they go and change them at will. Advice to self; get over it.

rawraw

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Re: good news finally
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2016, 05:18:10 PM »
They used to make quality loans and now they make loans to borrowers who won't pay them back and the recession is coming and they suck!  Another example of them changing the rules

Lovinglifestyle

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Re: good news finally
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2016, 05:25:15 PM »
They used to make quality loans and now they make loans to borrowers who won't pay them back and the recession is coming and they suck!  Another example of them changing the rules

Couldn't agree more.

They also used to let borrowers say something on their applications.

fliphusker

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Re: good news finally
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2016, 06:56:37 PM »
Correct me if I am wrong, but FOLIO is not owned by LC. 
Sorry Rob, but ya, feel those are trivial/needed changes.  Would anyone seriously gripe right now if they put a cap on markups at 10%?  Some may complain about 5%, but how many notes are intentionally bought in a given month at 5%?
Currently there are over 230k notes on FOLIO with over a 5% markup and not even all those are current.
Come on now, who is going to intentionally buy this?
https://www.lendingclub.com/foliofn/browseNotesLoanPerf.action?showfoliofn=true&loan_id=61549167&order_id=84921698&note_id=97536239
RawRaw -- Guess i do not see that.
Lovinglifestyle -- People's notes on their loans really make a difference on buying?  Would you be more willing to invest in someone if they came here?  Look at those scam artists who come here once a month saying they were turned down by LC and want people to invest. 

nonattender

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Re: good news finally
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2016, 08:29:57 PM »
Correct me if I am wrong

How much does that pay?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.

rawraw

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Re: good news finally
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2016, 09:48:55 PM »
My comment was a joke just FYI.  I know lately it's hard to spot that from regular paranoia lol.

I'm still concerned about the viability of LC, but not the health of prime consumers.

jennrod12

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Re: good news finally
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2016, 12:05:47 AM »
My comment was a joke just FYI.  I know lately it's hard to spot that from regular paranoia lol.

Rawraw,

I thought it was hilarious!  ;D

Jenn

fliphusker

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Re: good news finally
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2016, 02:44:03 AM »
Correct me if I am wrong

How much does that pay?
Give it a shot then we'll talk compensation.