Author Topic: Accelerated Liquidity for Lending Club: How Liquid P2P Works  (Read 3804 times)

Roux

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Accelerated Liquidity for Lending Club: How Liquid P2P Works
« on: November 29, 2018, 01:53:49 PM »
Hi all,

Liquid P2P is the new kid on the "automated investing" block offering Lending Club investors powerful access to the returns you want and the liquidity you need.

As veteran retail investors, we invite you to visit www.liquidp2p.com and see what you think.  We are currently offering new users a free 90-day trial with no credit card required.  During your trial, you'll have full access to our automated features so you can get a feel for the platform and see if it works for you.

To learn more, check out our latest blog post explaining Liquid Match, the patent-pending model that makes it all work.

https://blog.liquidp2p.com/accelerated-liquidity-for-lending-club-how-liquid-p2ps-patent-pending-investing-model-works/

mark78

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Re: Accelerated Liquidity for Lending Club: How Liquid P2P Works
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2018, 05:54:36 AM »
After a quick read of your site, I think your product sits on top of the Folio API. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Foremost among the innumerable problems with Folio is that when you list a note for sale, there is only a small chance that it will be actually "browse-able"- that is, actually listed for sale. There is another thread about that which I can't find at the moment. In my experience, only 10-20% of the notes that I try to sell with the Folio API are actually listed for sale, incredible as that may seem.

Does your product offer any secret sauce or work-around for that bizarre state of affairs? Or asked another way, if I ask you to sell $10,000 of notes, how long would it take to sell every note, assuming I'm not fussy about the price? Because it would take me years using Folio.

Roux

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Re: Accelerated Liquidity for Lending Club: How Liquid P2P Works
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2018, 11:12:12 AM »
The Liquid Model uses both the Folio API and LC API. We match Liquid Buyers with Liquid Sellers. Harnessing the power of the Liquid Investor Group is what makes our model work. Depending on your timeline, Liquid offers 3 different options for a withdrawal request.

1. Standard Withdrawal:

No liquidation involved. We simply pause reinvesting to allow incoming payments to accrue. You receive weekly bank transfers until amount is met, then reinvesting automatically resumes.
Fees: None | Timeline: Slowest

2. Liquid Match Withdrawal

Method: We pause reinvesting and automate liquidation using our Liquid Match model. As your cash balance builds from incoming payments and liquidation of notes, we initiate weekly bank transfers. Reinvesting automatically resumes when amount is met.

Fees: 1% Liquid Match, 1% Folio | Timeline: Accelerated

3. Liquid Match +PlusWithdrawal

Method: Control your timeline by setting an end date for Liquid Match withdrawal, which can be changed as you monitor progress. After end date, we liquidate eligible notes through the Liquid Reserve Pool to fulfill the remainder of your requested amount.

Fees: 2% Liquid Match Plus, 1% Folio | Timeline: Custom


Obviously timelines depend on what method you choose. In option 2 all payments coming into the group are directed to liquidate your notes. Therefore the timeline of your withdrawal is greatly accelerated. In option 3, you pick the actual date you want $10,000 to be liquidated by. So if you picked Friday the end of next week, the remaining balance of your withdrawal request not already liquidated by Liquid Match would be liquidated on the date selected by Liquid Match+. As our name implies, Liquid makes this asset class liquid. If you would like a personal tour of the site, just private message me.

Our website does a much better job of explaining this https://liquidp2p.com/how-it-works#Section2.

I'm the creator of Liquid, but I'm not the programmer. I'll ask our programmer to chime in on this discussion regarding our "secret sauce". However I'm not aware of any listing issues. Keep in mind our programmer went through numerous trial and error attempts to get everything just right.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 11:41:24 AM by Roux »

liquidp2p_dev

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Re: Accelerated Liquidity for Lending Club: How Liquid P2P Works
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2018, 03:02:47 PM »
Hi mark78,

I'm the developer for Liquid P2P and wanted to provide some more in depth responses to your questions.

I haven't observed the listing issues that you mention using the Folio API. How are you "browsing" for the notes once you list them?

If, for example, you are using the "https://api.lendingclub.com/api/investor/v1/secondarymarket/accounts/{accountId}/orders" endpoint, there are well documented issues with it not returning notes with a status of "IN_LISTING". This doesn't necessarily mean that the notes themselves aren't listed and are not browsable by buyers.

Even if such broad issues do exist for browsing notes posted via the Folio API, our automated system is not affected by such issues.

By design, our system bypasses the "browsing" process altogether.  Because our system is matching buyers and sellers internal to our platform, we list notes and buy them using the listing information before the notes even become browsable on the Folio marketplace.

Over the course of extensive testing and user-generated liquidations, we have had no difficulties trading notes via the Folio API beyond the slight annoyance of transactions occasionally being canceled for payment processing.

I hope this helps. I am happy to address any further questions you may have.   

Roux

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Re: Accelerated Liquidity for Lending Club: How Liquid P2P Works
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2018, 05:19:11 PM »
Hi Mark,

I also wanted to more specifically address the second part of your question about how long it might take for Liquid P2P to automate the liquidation of $10,000 worth of notes. There are several variables we would need to consider.

Since your notes were not originally purchased using our automated platform, it may not be as seamless as if they were.  The only way to give you an accurate estimate would be to look at your notes through our analytics. 

When you link a Lending Club account through our system, you are able to see a real-time breakdown of what we call "Liquid Match Eligibility."

If you look at the example screenshot I have included here, you will see we break down the total account value into "Eligible" and "Non-Eligible" principal.

Eligible Principal means the notes invested in meet our Liquid Match standards and qualify for accelerated liquidation through our Liquid Match model. The amount labeled "Liquid Portfolio" distinguishes eligible notes that were originally purchased through Liquid P2P. "Other Notes" refers to those purchased outside of Liquid P2P. Either can be eligible as long as the loan meets our Liquid Match standards.

Non-Eligible Principal means these notes do not currently meet Liquid Match Standards. We breakdown which standard is not being met to give you a better idea.  In your case, it is likely that most of your non-eligible notes would be listed under "Loan Score," meaning our algorithms would not have selected this note as a buy, or "Note Value," because we do not purchase notes greater than $25. 

You may want to consider creating an account to assess your Liquid Match Eligibility. Since we are currently offering new users a free 90-day trial with no credit card required, there is no risk.

With a trial account, you have full access to our automated investing features and can pause investing at any time. If you choose to submit a withdrawal request, however, you will be responsible for applicable liquidation fees. We will only prompt you to enter credit card information in this instance. 

If you decide to do the trial, we'd be happy to take detailed look at your account and help you estimate the likely timeline and cost for liquidating based on your actual notes.

You can reach us directly at team@liquidp2p.com or use the Live Chat on our site during business hours.

Link for more details on our free trial:
https://www.liquidp2p.com/fees-and-billing#faq4




lendingmachine

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Re: Accelerated Liquidity for Lending Club: How Liquid P2P Works
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2019, 06:41:16 PM »
Hi mark78,

I'm the developer for Liquid P2P and wanted to provide some more in depth responses to your questions.

I haven't observed the listing issues that you mention using the Folio API. How are you "browsing" for the notes once you list them?

If, for example, you are using the "https://api.lendingclub.com/api/investor/v1/secondarymarket/accounts/{accountId}/orders" endpoint, there are well documented issues with it not returning notes with a status of "IN_LISTING". This doesn't necessarily mean that the notes themselves aren't listed and are not browsable by buyers.
[/i]

What I think mark78  meant is that the notes are not showing up on the 'Browse Notes' web interface.  When listing notes they sometimes show up and sometimes don't.  In my experience all notes will show up when you search for them with the api or if you look in SecondaryMarketAllNotes.csv but getting them to show up on the web interface is a struggle.  Have you found a way around this?

mark78

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Re: Accelerated Liquidity for Lending Club: How Liquid P2P Works
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2019, 04:39:47 PM »

Quote
What I think mark78  meant is that the notes are not showing up on the 'Browse Notes' web interface.  When listing notes they sometimes show up and sometimes don't.  In my experience all notes will show up when you search for them with the api or if you look in SecondaryMarketAllNotes.csv but getting them to show up on the web interface is a struggle.  Have you found a way around this?

That is what I meant. Interesting though if they do show in the API and csv. I haven't checked that.

liquidp2p_dev

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Re: Accelerated Liquidity for Lending Club: How Liquid P2P Works
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2019, 03:52:10 PM »
Quote
That is what I meant. Interesting though if they do show in the API and csv. I haven't checked that.

In my experience notes definitely do show up consistently via the API and csv. I haven't noticed issues with notes that we list for liquidation being discoverable via the web interface, but I have probably checked that less frequently. I'll do a little more checking and see if I encounter similar results.

mark78

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Re: Accelerated Liquidity for Lending Club: How Liquid P2P Works
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2019, 07:35:54 PM »
I checked the api and csv and agree those do seem to show all the notes, so itís just the web interface that doesnít show them.

Sorry to have hijacked this thread. For future visitors, this discussion about whether notes are browsable has little to do with Liquid P2P, and it would affect any note seller in the same way.

kelreinewe

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Re: Accelerated Liquidity for Lending Club: How Liquid P2P Works
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2019, 12:28:33 PM »
Self-directed secondary market trading, however, is often a tedious and time-consuming process that many investors avoid altogether, making it a limited option at best. The supply of notes can far outweigh buyer demand, and pricing continues to be a challenge.

Fred93

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Re: Accelerated Liquidity for Lending Club: How Liquid P2P Works
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2019, 04:10:34 PM »
Self-directed secondary market trading, however, is often a tedious and time-consuming process that many investors avoid altogether, making it a limited option at best. The supply of notes can far outweigh buyer demand, and pricing continues to be a challenge.

The SECONDARY market is worthless.  Worthless to you and me, and worthless to LC.  In its present state, the volumes are so low that LC could not possibly be making a profit on it.  I think they tolerate its existence simply because they wonder whether in the future it might be meaningful.

For you and me, automation of this low volume market may reduce the ridiculous effort required to manually trade it, but it doesn't magically increase the transaction volume.

LC allocates $0 to improve the thing, because it isn't doing anything good for them.   A couple of times I've talked with insiders who say somebody has a plan to rework the whole thing ... which just seems like a nonstarter, because I can't imagine management allocating the $ to do it..  I've a couple of times suggested tiny improvements which would be low cost ... such as making TRANSACTION data available, so people can learn the prices at which transactions are actually occurring.  It is strange that this is the only market in the world where there is no transaction data available.  You can't know the "going price" of anything, because transactions are secret.  I hesitate to even call that a "market". 

No interest or understanding from LC.

jrl

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Re: Accelerated Liquidity for Lending Club: How Liquid P2P Works
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2019, 06:54:28 PM »
I've a couple of times suggested tiny improvements which would be low cost ...

The biggest one for me right now would be a button on the listing page to add a note to your order.

Example: https://www.lendingclub.com/foliofn/browseNotesLoanPerf.action?showfoliofn=true&loan_id=148002051&order_id=211521511&note_id=199102606

(Definitely not a note I would buy.)

Why do I then have to manually find the listing on the "Browse Notes" page, where there's 10's of thousands of notes? So annoying having to change the YTM to within 0.01 points of the listed YTM, just to search for a note that may not even still exist. (Is there an easier way?)

It's a good thing I only need a few notes per day, but this makes folio buying prohibitive for larger investors.

We shouldn't need things like Liquid P2P, NSR, PeerCube, etc. The functionality (Backtesting, automated note buying with advanced criteria, multiple filters, automated folio note buying, etc.) should be provided by LC, and advertised. Just that alone would probably increase fractional investor and folio volume 10 fold.

Lovinglifestyle

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Re: Accelerated Liquidity for Lending Club: How Liquid P2P Works
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2019, 04:15:54 AM »
jrl--thanks for the link. 
For some reason I am able to log in and view it even though my account was closed for inactivity (I can only see my statement pdf page).  I can no longer see active loans for sale.  With the fed int rate going south, I'm not a happy camper right now.